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Hi All, I would like to talk through architectures and solutions for this use case during tomorrow's call. We have multiple Learning Management Systems (LMS) and other consumers of Course Roster information. Right now the LMSs come in and do complete course roster refreshes. That is, they grab all the course rosters data for all the courses that they host every four hours from a Web Service. They would like to move to a notification system where they would subscribe to a queue and be notified of when there are changes to rosters. If a roster they are interested in has been change, they would call the Web Service and get just that roster's data. This seems simple but as I've thought through it, the problem becomes a bit prickly. I would love to get all your feedback and input on this issue. Thanks, Jim ps. You know that any member can use the Thursday calls to vet a problem with their peers like this. Not just me. Just let me know if you want time on the agenda. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

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Message from rich.stevenson@umuc.edu

Jim, I won't be on the call, but we are solving this use case now, with some caveats (we are sending enrollment data to our LMS and to other systems like our CRM). Our plans are to use PS SAIP to publish using its event driven features for course creation and student enrollment, and to publish these events to an ESB. The ESB will transform and route to appropriate systems. So we aren't publishing an "updated" event, we are publishing the actual update data. Drawbacks of course are that the ESB becomes mission critical, and it has to know what data needs to go where and do the transforms. But that's what ESB's do. Thanks, Rich -- Sent from my iPad Richmond Stevenson Assistant Vice President, Architecture and Strategy University of Maryland University College 3501 University Blvd. East Administration Bldg 1254 Adelphi, MD 20783 (301) 985-7045 rich.stevenson@umuc.edu
Message from niederhp@gmail.com

Jim,

An analogous situation (not course roster data) we've worked on is how staffing changes in our HR system (hires, terminations, transfers, etc.) flow to our identity management system. In the past this was a nightly reconciliation of all identities with all identities. As of this year it is event-driven; when certain workflow steps are completed in the HRIS, they trigger web services calls to the IDM.

You've probably already considered them, but for the sake of discussion the main issues we encountered were:
  • It turned out there are a few kinds of changes to a person's status in the HRIS that matter to the IDM but (inherent in the product) don't provide a "hook" for an event; analogously, there might be changes to student data in the SIS that affect rosters but that you can't capture effectively to populate a queue or trigger a call.
  • Within the project timeframe and resources, we couldn't implement messaging reliable enough to guarantee that the IDM would receive every event (and also successfully return data to the HRIS, which probably isn't relevant to your LMS scenario).
The result was that -- you guessed it -- we still do the full nightly reconciliation anyway, to catch exceptions and failures. This obviously doesn't scale; only the IDM gets the benefit of the event-driven information.

The second bullet is a good example of the limitations of a project-driven approach to middleware; there are never enough projects big enough to generate the infrastructure needed by later projects.

Regards,

Piet


Message from harry@marist.edu

On 4/11/2012 3:20 PM, Jim Phelps wrote: > Hi All, > > I would like to talk through architectures and solutions for this use case during tomorrow's call. > > We have multiple Learning Management Systems (LMS) and other consumers of Course Roster information. Right now the LMSs come in and do complete course roster refreshes. That is, they grab all the course rosters data for all the courses that they host every four hours from a Web Service. They would like to move to a notification system where they would subscribe to a queue and be notified of when there are changes to rosters. If a roster they are interested in has been change, they would call the Web Service and get just that roster's data. > > This seems simple but as I've thought through it, the problem becomes a bit prickly. I would love to get all your feedback and input on this issue. Have you looked at IMS GLC Learning Information Services Specification (LIS) http://www.imsglobal.org/lis/lisv2p0pd/LISspecificationv2p0pd.html We're looking at doing that on an ESB to make it available to many different services. /ahw > > Thanks, > > Jim > > ps. You know that any member can use the Thursday calls to vet a problem with their peers like this. Not just me. Just let me know if you want time on the agenda. > > ********** > Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
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