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Message from lgreco@berkeley.edu

Sorry I was not able to stay on the line this morning. But I needed to work with a student. I would be willing to work with a group of people to brain storm a few ideas about how we can better educate purchasing staff and administrators about what to ask and how to check before thinking about buying Lucy ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

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Message from cindy.poore-pariseau@bristolcc.edu

I'd be interested in joining this group of people to brainstorm as well "If we teach today as we taught yesterday, we rob our children of tomorrow" ~John Dewey Cindy Poore-Pariseau, Ph. D. Bristol Community College Coordinator of Disability Services Office of Disability Services, B115 O O Email:  cindy.poore-pariseau@bristolcc.edu c Phone:  (508) 678-2811 x 2470  Fax:        (508) 508-730-3297
I wasn't on the call this morning due to another meeting - but I'd be happy to share ideas, policies, and committee information that we've used to put together a "net" in our purchasing department.  We have it setup so that anything over 2K must be checked for accessibility along with a list of other things.

Our bigger problem that we've faced is trying to hold faculty responsible and getting them to incorporate accessibility into the classroom as a Universal Design approach rather than waiting until there is a student.

Thanks,

Kara Zirkle
IT Accessibility Coordinator
Assistive Technology Initiative
Aquia Building, RM 238
Mail Stop: 6A11
Fairfax Campus
4400 University Drive
Fairfax, VA 22030
Phone: 703-993-9815
Main Office Phone: 703-993-4329
Fax: 703-993-4743
http://webaccessibility.gmu.edu
http://ati.gmu.edu
http://accessibility.gmu.edu


On 5/2/2012 4:56 PM, Lucia Greco wrote:
Hello: Sorry I was not able to stay on the line this morning. But I needed to work with a student. I would be willing to work with a group of people to brain storm a few ideas about how we can better educate purchasing staff and administrators about what to ask and how to check before thinking about buying Lucy ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Hello Everyone, I also could not dial in due to a last minute meeting in my office this morning, but I'm interested in participating in the project Lucy mentioned below. 
 
Please copy me on these messages.
 
Sincerely,
 
Sushil Oswal
University of Washington
   
Kara,

I had an idea to treat any purchased Web site design similarly to a physical building project:  While a site is being designed and built, an inspector monitors progress and inspects and advises the builder how to pass the inspection.  While this would add a slight cost to every significant project (over a certain price) to include an inspection fee, it would ensure that it's done properly.

In discussions at our campus, it didn't go very far because we have no volunteer inspectors, and because it seemed too onerous to purchasing to insert this process.  So Kara, how exactly do you do the accessibility check?  Who does it?  How is that received by developers, university purchasing, and the customer department?

Kevin

 On 5/2/2012 4:18 PM, Kara Zirkle wrote:
I wasn't on the call this morning due to another meeting - but I'd be happy to share ideas, policies, and committee information that we've used to put together a "net" in our purchasing department.  We have it setup so that anything over 2K must be checked for accessibility along with a list of other things.

Our bigger problem that we've faced is trying to hold faculty responsible and getting them to incorporate accessibility into the classroom as a Universal Design approach rather than waiting until there is a student.

Thanks,

Kara Zirkle
IT Accessibility Coordinator
Assistive Technology Initiative
Aquia Building, RM 238
Mail Stop: 6A11
Fairfax Campus
4400 University Drive
Fairfax, VA 22030
Phone: 703-993-9815
Main Office Phone: 703-993-4329
Fax: 703-993-4743
http://webaccessibility.gmu.edu
http://ati.gmu.edu
http://accessibility.gmu.edu


On 5/2/2012 4:56 PM, Lucia Greco wrote:
Hello: Sorry I was not able to stay on the line this morning. But I needed to work with a student. I would be willing to work with a group of people to brain storm a few ideas about how we can better educate purchasing staff and administrators about what to ask and how to check before thinking about buying Lucy ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Good morning Kevin, et.al.

EXACTLY!

When talking to Capital Planning and Facilities groups I also use that time/resource analogy for the processing of “information architecture” service/procurements. These buyers understand the iterative process of contracting and building with standards and codes, - the direct relationship of 508 as written into CA government statutes is directly relational. Not any easier to swallow but, at least it starts the conversation on stable ground.

 

Jon Gunderson University of Illinois wrote:

The first step is getting good language in the RFP and procurement process.

Some of the administrative control issues that I have discovered.

1- Most software and IT purchases do not met the threshold of a formal RFP. So accessibility is dependent on the person or department with the pot of money to ask, inquire or require accessibility.

 

Supports (with exception).

- But, the ‘ask, inquire and require’ aspect is somewhat contentious with buyers and various economic/political structures within colleges.  The big question of who’s going to pay for the equally effective access/accommodation (EEA) may appear obvious - The Buyer because, they draft the overriding product functional requirements, but then; they may not be best equipped with the expertise to discern what is be fully needed to draft the EEA.  Often the ‘accommodation’ resource bread-basket is held by the Disability Service/Resource Center.  Does this department accommodate 508 procurements by thinning out a budget set by previous years individual accommodations?

I’ve wondered of an equation that would hypothetically grasp projected 508 & 504 expenses from previous 504 budget models and ICT procurements pre 508, but I have YET to come up with the time to adequately round up stakeholders and crunch those numbers.

 

JG

2- Most companies have little understanding of accessibility, so unless their is some verification process, vendors accessibility claims of accessibility can fall short of actual accessibility.  Companies usually provide very little if any details on what they mean by the term they usually use including "ADA complaint" or "Section 508 complaint"

 

BG

Supports (with exception). 

I received a VPAT this week for what was described as a Website application for creation of data forms, storage and transmittal; the VPAT read; N/A throughout – on top of that, the VPAT did not include the product name, date, version of contact number of the creator. The Venders response was – you asked Us to complete the form, we did and it is accurate from our perspective.  After tracking down the Salesperson on the phone - and awkward silence, perspectives shifted toward something a bit more pragmatic and amicable.

There are companies out there that are deeply invested in building Accessible products. I was talking to the Founder of a new LMS system and asking why they didn’t use their commitment to Accessibility more in their marketing programs; he looked over somewhat astonished and relayed – ‘Access has been so integral to our product build plus,  we’ve been doing it so long it never occurred to me’.

 

JG

But the first step is have good RFP and procurement policies, without this first step any other steps on verification of vendor claims or working with vendors to improve accessibility are less likely to happen.

 

BG

Yep - if it’s not upfront in the RFP - you cannot expect a company to be held to adding access in later as the nice thing to do. This sort of afterward extra can be seen as bad business practice from the buyers end, put yourself in the company’s position. I’ve heard argument that if Access is put into the RFP then ‘no one’ will want to do business with us. I’ve yet to see real data to support that claim.  And if so then that may save those of us who are required to add Access into the procurement a lot of time and effort dealing with those who choose not to make what is needed by everyone available to everyone.

 

JG

The decentralized nature of most universities, it is often difficult to get all the people who make purchasing decisions to understand what they need to do, even when policies are in place.

 

BG

Decentralization model appears to be systemic to 508. This may be something that can be addressed at the Policy level of State, Regional, Educational System and/or college level.  

 

RE Cost Thresholds and product assessments:

Recommendations for how to access products is a mix of science and art; both require communication- in house and where ever help may be found.

 

The CSU held aims for system-wide zero dollar threshold, this  cost threshold model may continue to be applied. However; the CSU current model is focuses on population “Impact”. Impact is useful in that it can streamline an assessment process with limited resources (human and otherwise) by focusing on product/services that ‘touch’ the greatest number of individuals. Possible examples: High = 101 required courses (all students) , Web applications (unknown public). Low = Administrative office of six/twelve people (as a fall back, individual accommodation as part of employee controls are apt to be in place). Both of these examples may have product/service costs of anywhere between $100,000 + down to something ‘freely’ downloaded from the Internet.

 

Bill Grubaugh

(man, I love this stuff)

 

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