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Good Morning, Tracy,

    I've been thinking about this for a while.  I enjoyed the comments after Friedman's column: I think they echo the range of comments we would get on our own campuses.

    But my thinking about this has become dominated with one perspective.  I've long thought that one of the greatest human tragedies is that, as a supposedly intelligent species, we don't pay any systematic attention to advancing the species by supporting and promoting individual excellence.  The next potential Einstein could be a young woman from Sudan and we'd never know it because we don't support education globally to identify and allow people with talent to fully develop -- whether in arts, science, engineering, medicine ... whatever.

    Colleagues in our institutions will decry the commoditization of education and scoff at the quality of education that will come from such online courses.  But 100,000 students, in one course in one semester, globally?  Most of whom would never have gotten the chance to take a course with a Stanford CS faculty member any other way.  And a system for identifying the best of those students.  Smart schools will use that as a mechanism for attracting and supporting the best.  The result could be a systematic approach to providing opportunities to enable the best to contribute to making the world better and improving their own lives beyond what they could possibly imagine. 

    Personally, I think this is a brilliant move on Stanford's part.  And I hope it's successful in enabling the brightest and most talented individuals, worldwide, to reach their full potential.  I hope those of us in higher education can rise above our perceived own best interests and learn how to thrive in that new world.

    Thanks for pointing out the article.  Take care, and we hope to see you in Denver in October!

David (& Karen)


Message from skip.bazile@gmail.com

Hi All,

I saw this great article posted in the CIO listserv. It's by Thomas Friedman Come the Revolution 
and I think it has huge potential to "diversify" higher education. In the comments section some are responding to the fact that "globalizing" education is not such a good idea and may be doomed to fail. In my opinion, I believe that those who are most against this are from countries where traditional education is firmly rooted in the classroom (and profit). Those individuals might be using the USA as the bases for their opposition. Yet, I think if they were more global in their outlook, they might see it differently. I seriously doubt that a kid or parent in other countries where education is valued but nearly impossible to obtain would think differently.  And I see by the comments, in my opinion, many more of us in higher education need a global/diverse perspective.

One thing is for sure, while there has been other attempts to reach the masses via technology previously and have failed. The fact that this continues to come about every few years tells me that this is a goal worth reaching.

Any comments?

Thanks,
Richard Skip Bazile
http://www.educause.edu/Community/MemDir/Profiles/RichardJBazile/48253
about.me/richardbazile
********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion listserv can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Message from shelf@westernu.edu

This is awesome, perhaps a threat and a promise, but certainly a foil to our current way of doing business in higher (all?) ed.

 

It is an example of the concepts that Brynjolfsson and McAffee mention in their book on the broader topic, suggested by the title of their book, “Race Against the Machine”:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Race-Against-The-Machine-ebook/dp/B005WTR4ZI

 

What it means for humanity, I suspect the authors would posit, depends on how we thoughtfully position ourselves as creators, teachers, and learners, amongst these “machines” (of learning).

 

Thank you for the post; very intriguing and potentially revolutionary.

 

Sincerely,

 

Scott Helf, DO, MSIT

Chief Technology Officer-COMP

Director, Academic Informatics

Assistant Professor

 

Department of Academic Informatics

Office of Academic Affairs

College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific

Western University of Health Sciences

309 East 2nd Street

Pomona, CA  91766

 

909-781-4353

shelf@westernu.edu

 

www.westernu.edu

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, I’ll bite, Tracy.  As an adjunct approach, I think this “revolution” is incremental other than for the sheer size of the delivery.  Separation of knowledge transfer and what we might call formation has been on the agenda since I was an undergraduate so long ago.  As an example, I’d cite the practice testing in various disciplines intended to create questions in the classroom.

 

However, if this “revolution” is intended to replace what we have today, some questions are in order:

 

1)      How many of us would be comfortable hiring an unknown person educated as part of the “revolution” over an unknown person who was educated in the more traditional framework we’ve relied upon for so many years?

2)      Of all the 22 year olds we know and have known, how many have the wisdom to use knowledge gained with 99,999 other students to apply in an organization with all of the requisite organizational dynamics where ethics and human relations are just two requirements?

3)      Do we have evidence that massive online delivery scales in numbers so large?

4)      If we believe massive online delivery scales, what does that say about all of the peripheral support we’ve created and maintained in higher education for so long around classes of much smaller size and more dynamic faculty involvement?

 

Rather than add more questions, I guess I would summarize to say that just because we need a compass, doesn’t mean we should lose the map.

_______________________________________

Peter Greco

Chief Information Officer

Regis University

3333 Regis Blvd

Denver, CO 80221-1099

Learners becoming Leaders in the Jesuit Catholic Tradition

Visit us on the Web at regis.edu

 

 

 

Yes, Tom, the world is flat. It turns out that higher ed is part of the world. Ho-hum.

It is, indeed, a revolution. But it is not news. If this were the stock market, the investors noticing and piling on to this "new trend" now would be the ones about to lose their shirts. Or the folks who took out a big ARM in 2006 to buy a house they couldn't afford.

We know that some of the things we do (and charge for—sometimes a lot!) can be done as well or better for free or cheap and at scale. Not the first time we've seen that; do you know a good cobbler? (And I don't mean the dessert.)

Here's a question for you: what is it that universities and colleges do well that is not being done by Coursera, Udacity, Saylor, etc?  I have some ideas. I'd love to hear yours.

Ethan

——
Ethan Benatan, Ph.D.
Vice President for IT & 
Chief Information Officer
503.699.6325   

MARYLHURST UNIVERSITY
You. Unlimited.



Ethan,
You ask:
" what is it that universities and colleges do well that is not being done by Coursera, Udacity, Saylor, etc?"

This is an important question. It is also the question that US Steel asked itself when the Japanese mini-mills technology appeared, and they ceded the lower part of the steel markets to this new technology, focusing their attention on the more profitable higher-end products that the new technology could not (yet!) produce. We know how that story ended.

In addition to your important question, I would add two more questions:

1. How can traditional bricks and mortar schools adapt in order to take advantage of these new resources that are coming on-line on what seems like a weekly basis?

2. How does the education of a human being differ from the production of steel, or the production of anything for that matter? 

-- mike




At present the discussion is mainly about threat rather than opportunity.  If you reframe the issue and ask about teaching courses in the STEM areas to bright high school students, the new developments can look quite complementary to what we do.  This semester my son, a high school senior, took a course at Parkland, the local community college, an intro to programming.  There’s no AP credit for the course, which I view as a plus.  It was just something he wanted as preparation for next year and the rest of his life.  There could be much more of this sort of thing and it could start much earlier.  If it didn’t count in the high school GPA the kids could find out what they like intellectually without worrying about the credential, that would be an important benefit.  This really isn’t a new idea at all. In the early 1970s, I took a course on Saturdays at NYU on Relativity and Geometry, meant for high school students.  Now you don’t have to take a bus and a subway to get to the course.  Further, seats were limited then.   It appears to be open enrollment now.

 

On the threat part, probably the biggest for us would be summer courses, where we at Illinoisare already losing out because many kids move back home during the summer and take a course or two locally (plus our tuition is high when viewed on a course by course basis).  On the larger threat, it seems to me that most of our thinking is inductive rather than based on immediate circumstance and the far bigger threat is that the economy remains in the doldrums and too many of our recent graduates aren’t doing well in it.

 

Lanny

 

 

From: The EDUCAUSE CIO Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:CIO@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Roy
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 6:04 AM
To: CIO@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [CIO] NYTimes.com: Come the Revolution

 

Ethan,

You ask:

" what is it that universities and colleges do well that is not being done by Coursera, Udacity, Saylor, etc?"

 

This is an important question. It is also the question that US Steel asked itself when the Japanese mini-mills technology appeared, and they ceded the lower part of the steel markets to this new technology, focusing their attention on the more profitable higher-end products that the new technology could not (yet!) produce. We know how that story ended.

 

In addition to your important question, I would add two more questions:

 

1. How can traditional bricks and mortar schools adapt in order to take advantage of these new resources that are coming on-line on what seems like a weekly basis?

 

2. How does the education of a human being differ from the production of steel, or the production of anything for that matter? 

 

-- mike

 

 

 

Exactly. The "threat" focus brings on the US Steel response. There were probably a lot of cobblers who thought they could outrun cheap mass shoe production, too. 

But there is another, far better response: assume (as Christensen might say) that the "entrant" is going to eat almost everyone's lunch. The lunch they are eating is, as near as I can tell, "teaching courses". That's what we charge for. But we do a lot of other stuff, too. Some of it has great value, and some of it may be able to scale, cheaply and maasively. Other parts may retain high value and be profitable even though labor-intensive. Both of those areas are interesting to me; they will present opportunities as the "teaching courses" activity becomes increasingly independent of the other activities and as the price for courses heads towards zero.

Ethan

On Thursday, May 17, 2012, Arvan, Lanny wrote:

At present the discussion is mainly about threat rather than opportunity.  If you reframe the issue and ask about teaching courses in the STEM areas to bright high school students, the new developments can look quite complementary to what we do.  This semester my son, a high school senior, took a course at Parkland, the local community college, an intro to programming.  There’s no AP credit for the course, which I view as a plus.  It was just something he wanted as preparation for next year and the rest of his life.  There could be much more of this sort of thing and it could start much earlier.  If it didn’t count in the high school GPA the kids could find out what they like intellectually without worrying about the credential, that would be an important benefit.  This really isn’t a new idea at all. In the early 1970s, I took a course on Saturdays at NYU on Relativity and Geometry, meant for high school students.  Now you don’t have to take a bus and a subway to get to the course.  Further, seats were limited then.   It appears to be open enrollment now.

 

On the threat part, probably the biggest for us would be summer courses, where we at Illinoisare already losing out because many kids move back home during the summer and take a course or two locally (plus our tuition is high when viewed on a course by course basis).  On the larger threat, it seems to me that most of our thinking is inductive rather than based on immediate circumstance and the far bigger threat is that the economy remains in the doldrums and too many of our recent graduates aren’t doing well in it.

 

Lanny

 

 

From: The EDUCAUSE CIO Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:CIO@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Roy
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 6:04 AM
To: CIO@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [CIO] NYTimes.com: Come the Revolution

 

Ethan,

You ask:

" what is it that universities and colleges do well that is not being done by Coursera, Udacity, Saylor, etc?"

 

This is an important question. It is also the question that US Steel asked itself when the Japanese mini-mills technology appeared, and they ceded the lower part of the steel markets to this new technology, focusing their attention on the more profitable higher-end products that the new technology could not (yet!) produce. We know how that story ended.

 

In addition to your important question, I would add two more questions:

 

1. How can traditional bricks and mortar schools adapt in order to take advantage of these new resources that are coming on-line on what seems like a weekly basis?

 

2. How does the education of a human being differ from the production of steel, or the production of anything for that matter? 

 

-- mike

 

 

 

Agreed Larry.  My point about the compass and the map was that both have value.  There is way too much focus on the need for the compass at this point.  The map may be in need of much revision, but version control should be applied so that we don’t desert knowledge of its present state and the increments of change. Entrepreneurs and innovators know that it makes sense to fail – and learn – fast.  Journalists try to capture whatever might be sensational.  These two things are interesting to consider together, using a compass AND a map.

 

Also agreed about the economy.  That’s the revolution of our times.  We will never return to the industrial model that I (and many on this list) grew to expect as a given.  And IT is a big cause…you’d think I would know better.

_______________________________________

Peter Greco

Chief Information Officer

Regis University

3333 Regis Blvd

Denver, CO 80221-1099

Learners becoming Leaders in the Jesuit Catholic Tradition

Visit us on the Web at regis.edu

 

 

 

From: The EDUCAUSE CIO Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:CIO@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Arvan, Lanny
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 6:17 AM
To: CIO@listserv.educause.edu
Subject: Re: [CIO] NYTimes.com: Come the Revolution

 

At present the discussion is mainly about threat rather than opportunity.  If you reframe the issue and ask about teaching courses in the STEM areas to bright high school students, the new developments can look quite complementary to what we do.  This semester my son, a high school senior, took a course at Parkland, the local community college, an intro to programming.  There’s no AP credit for the course, which I view as a plus.  It was just something he wanted as preparation for next year and the rest of his life.  There could be much more of this sort of thing and it could start much earlier.  If it didn’t count in the high school GPA the kids could find out what they like intellectually without worrying about the credential, that would be an important benefit.  This really isn’t a new idea at all. In the early 1970s, I took a course on Saturdays at NYU on Relativity and Geometry, meant for high school students.  Now you don’t have to take a bus and a subway to get to the course.  Further, seats were limited then.   It appears to be open enrollment now.

 

On the threat part, probably the biggest for us would be summer courses, where we at Illinoisare already losing out because many kids move back home during the summer and take a course or two locally (plus our tuition is high when viewed on a course by course basis).  On the larger threat, it seems to me that most of our thinking is inductive rather than based on immediate circumstance and the far bigger threat is that the economy remains in the doldrums and too many of our recent graduates aren’t doing well in it.

 

Lanny

 

 

From: The EDUCAUSE CIO Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:CIO@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Roy
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 6:04 AM
To: CIO@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [CIO] NYTimes.com: Come the Revolution

 

Ethan,

You ask:

" what is it that universities and colleges do well that is not being done by Coursera, Udacity, Saylor, etc?"

 

This is an important question. It is also the question that US Steel asked itself when the Japanese mini-mills technology appeared, and they ceded the lower part of the steel markets to this new technology, focusing their attention on the more profitable higher-end products that the new technology could not (yet!) produce. We know how that story ended.

 

In addition to your important question, I would add two more questions:

 

1. How can traditional bricks and mortar schools adapt in order to take advantage of these new resources that are coming on-line on what seems like a weekly basis?

 

2. How does the education of a human being differ from the production of steel, or the production of anything for that matter? 

 

-- mike

 

 

 

Good Morning, Ethan,

David, I love your irony and your point!  

Another way of characterizing your list is that it's (a humorous, cynical view of) a package of things, designed to help young adults move from home to being independent, successful, contributing citizens. That was definitely part of the old-school college "package" and some of us include at least parts of it in our current deal, even though we charge by the credit hour. 

Not everyone has included those things, or at least not all of them: community colleges, commuter schools, online for-profits. At Marylhurst we strive to create a special environment for transformative, liberal education for adult learners.  What is that, exactly, once the classes are out of the picture? What's real and valuable and in demand there, that isn't being provided for free?

Ethan

——
Ethan Benatan, Ph.D.
Vice President for IT & 
Chief Information Officer
503.699.6325   

MARYLHURST UNIVERSITY
You. Unlimited.



PERFECT, Ethan! 

On 5/17/12 1:22 PM, Ethan Benatan wrote:
David, I love your irony and your point!  

Another way of characterizing your list is that it's (a humorous, cynical view of) a package of things, designed to help young adults move from home to being independent, successful, contributing citizens. That was definitely part of the old-school college "package" and some of us include at least parts of it in our current deal, even though we charge by the credit hour. 

Not everyone has included those things, or at least not all of them: community colleges, commuter schools, online for-profits. At Marylhurst we strive to create a special environment for transformative, liberal education for adult learners.  What is that, exactly, once the classes are out of the picture? What's real and valuable and in demand there, that isn't being provided for free?

Ethan

——
Ethan Benatan, Ph.D.
Vice President for IT & 
Chief Information Officer
503.699.6325   

MARYLHURST UNIVERSITY
You. Unlimited.



Message from cheneghan@gmail.com


Lanny,
 
You raise some great points here and I agree with you wholeheartedly.
 
As long as we are looking at the core issues we should also ask ourselves:
 
* Why are our per course tuition rates high (by comparison)? Which of the underlying cost components can be reduced and is the way that we are building our instructional content out of date?
* How can we make our summer courses more attractive? What can/should we offer that other providers could not compete with (as well)?
and
* What can and should we be doing so that our graduates enjoy greater success in the workplace?
 
Keep in mind what the University system was originally created to accomplish and now ask,
"Is it still succeeding in providing this valuable service to our 21st century customers"
If not, what changes and updates do we need to make to it so that it is Just as relevant and effective now as it was at its inception?
 
Christian
Message from shelf@westernu.edu

Love it, Ethan and David – and to the point and spoiler of the said book.

 

To thrive in this new era, one must race WITH the machines…

 

 

 

Scott Helf, DO, MSIT

Chief Technology Officer-COMP

Director, Academic Informatics

Assistant Professor

 

Department of Academic Informatics

Office of Academic Affairs

College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific

Western University of Health Sciences

309 East 2nd Street

Pomona, CA  91766

 

909-781-4353

shelf@westernu.edu

 

www.westernu.edu

 

-sch

 

From: The EDUCAUSE CIO Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:CIO@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ethan Benatan
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 10:22 AM
To: CIO@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [CIO] NYTimes.com: Come the Revolution

 

David, I love your irony and your point!  

 

Another way of characterizing your list is that it's (a humorous, cynical view of) a package of things, designed to help young adults move from home to being independent, successful, contributing citizens. That was definitely part of the old-school college "package" and some of us include at least parts of it in our current deal, even though we charge by the credit hour. 

 

Not everyone has included those things, or at least not all of them: community colleges, commuter schools, online for-profits. At Marylhurst we strive to create a special environment for transformative, liberal education for adult learners.  What is that, exactly, once the classes are out of the picture? What's real and valuable and in demand there, that isn't being provided for free?

 

Ethan

 

——

Ethan Benatan, Ph.D.

Vice President for IT & 

Chief Information Officer

503.699.6325   

 

MARYLHURST UNIVERSITY

You. Unlimited.



Hi all, This is a very interesting discussion. In the past few weeks I have spoken to a few presidents and provost about the value of Higher Education and the disruptive forces affecting our industry. The issue is really about what education all about. A couple of years ago, a delegate of educator was invited by the State department to go to China for a visit. Their goal is to see how China educational technologies faired with that of the US. On most of the trip they felt pretty good about the state of US educational technologies. But on their last stop at Shanghai Institute of Technology, the group was blown away about the they saw. It far exceeds the technology available to most institutions in the US. After the visit, they were given an opportunity to visit with the minister of Education for China. They basically asked two questions: 1. Is this technology unique to this school? 2. What do you see as the advantage of US Higher Education? The answer to question 1 was that they intend to put this technology to every single classroom within one year. Now they did not achieve that but they have made huge progress. The answer to question 2 is that US education does much better in three areas as compare to Chinese education. 1. Communication – American students do much better in asking questions and communicating than Chinese students. 2. Team Work – American students work much better in a team setting that Chinese students. 3. Innovation – American students are much more innovative than Chinese students. If you notice, the first two strengths are really pre-requisites to the third. So the question becomes – How do we create an Innovative student? My definition of Innovation is the connection of different pieces of information in a new way. This process requires (1) Knowledge, (2) Reflective/Critical thinking, and in many cases (3) Team Work. Traditionally, lectures and books have been able to provide Knowledge but the application of that knowledge is left to homework and out of class discussions. As you know, online lectures like these only provide one of the three components of creating an Innovative Student. The article talked about "flipping" the class. A flipped class makes information available before class. Class time is then use to explore the application of the information. The teacher's value is no longer in providing the knowledge but the application of that knowledge. In-other-words, the provider of wisdom and not knowledge. In order to accomplish this, the classroom must drastically change from a lecture to discussions and student engagement. Faculty will need to be retools to in this new pedagogical paradigm shift. IT must also explore systems to support this type of learning must also be in place. What are the systems and environments to help reflective/critical think? What are the digital tools that will assist for teams the thrive? God bless, Sam Young Chief Information Officer Point Loma Nazarene University Individualization ~ Achiever ~ Learner ~ Belief ~ Activator From: Scott Helf > Reply-To: EDUCAUSE Listserv > Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 18:17:27 +0000 To: EDUCAUSE Listserv > Subject: Re: [CIO] NYTimes.com: Come the Revolution Love it, Ethan and David – and to the point and spoiler of the said book. To thrive in this new era, one must race WITH the machines… Scott Helf, DO, MSIT Chief Technology Officer-COMP Director, Academic Informatics Assistant Professor Department of Academic Informatics Office of Academic Affairs College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific Western University of Health Sciences 309 East 2nd Street Pomona, CA 91766 909-781-4353 shelf@westernu.edu www.westernu.edu -sch From: The EDUCAUSE CIO Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:CIO@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ethan Benatan Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 10:22 AM To: CIO@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [CIO] NYTimes.com: Come the Revolution David, I love your irony and your point! Another way of characterizing your list is that it's (a humorous, cynical view of) a package of things, designed to help young adults move from home to being independent, successful, contributing citizens. That was definitely part of the old-school college "package" and some of us include at least parts of it in our current deal, even though we charge by the credit hour. Not everyone has included those things, or at least not all of them: community colleges, commuter schools, online for-profits. At Marylhurst we strive to create a special environment for transformative, liberal education for adult learners. What is that, exactly, once the classes are out of the picture? What's real and valuable and in demand there, that isn't being provided for free? Ethan —— Ethan Benatan, Ph.D. Vice President for IT & Chief Information Officer 503.699.6325 MARYLHURST UNIVERSITY You. Unlimited.
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