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Per Mary's request: About Google apps vs. Office 365 First off, I say sign up for both. There's no penalty for having both. Both offer cloud storage, productivity apps (word processing, spreadsheets, etc), and email apps. Users could use both on the same system, so it could be user/faculty/student preference. I personally like Office 365 for Education's service offering and (in my opinion) Microsoft has tighter integration and better services: offline document capability, Note-taking (OneNote), email (Outlook - [online or off]), and cloud-storage (SkyDrive). The only mandatory decision to make: which service do you host your school's email/archive email. Again, I prefer Microsoft's services. NOTE: I am not aware of Google having any offline-email capability. Hope this starts the conversation; as I always say: Your mileage may vary! J

Comments

I concur with Bill's assessment completely. I use Evernote for universal note taking and Google Docs for anything related to collaboration.

Mike Schmelder
Director of Information Services

Lancaster Country Day School
725 Hamilton Road
Lancaster, PA  17603-2491

717.392.2916 x246

www.lancastercountryday.org

  



Message from mlederer@chapinschool.org

Just food for thought. There are subscription versions for Office Pro plus and an A3 level which allows an office pro plus on 5 devices per user.  The A3, which includes full domain level email archiving, is 4.50 per employee per month and 2.50 per student per month (I think - I don't have my files in front of me.)  Pro plus includes One Note.

Mark Lederer

From Mark Lederer's mobile phone
Director of Technology
Chapin School
mlederer@chapinschool.org



-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: [ACCESS] question for those who have moved to Office 365
From: Bill Campbell <campbb@D-E.ORG>
To: "ACCESS@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU" <ACCESS@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
CC:


Sorry this is a little off topic from the title of this thread, but other posts seem to have moved it to a comparing advantages of Google Apps for Ed and Office 365.  (Are the "holy wars" like the old Mac vs PC and newer iPhone vs Android now moving to cloud too?)

I love OneNote and have been using it on Windows for about 8 years.  I have the paid Android version on my phone, the iOS version on my iPad, and ocassionally used the online version available at skydrive.live.com when I was using a Chromebook.  I've also been syncing a few notebooks between all of those sources for over a year.  OneNote is the only Microsoft app (until very recently) I fired up on a daily basis.

I use Google documents, sheets, and presentations (along with Gmail) instead of MS Office multiple times a day in my personal and professional life.  Google has no good replacement for OneNote so, on the surface, that would a pretty compelling reason to look at Office 365.

Carolyn's message encouraged me to reply because I know she has used Windows Tablet PCs a lot, which is a great pairing with OneNote due excellent ink support.  With that in mind, I warn those who haven't tried the Android, iOS and web versions of OneNote to NOT assume they are equivalent to OneNote for Windows.  You can't create ink on any of the non-Windows versions and while it has improved, viewing ink isn't always seamless. Even without inking, editing on other platforms is more limited than the Windows version with regard to great features I used to live by in Windows OneNote.  (e.g. Collapsing any indented paragraphs on a OneNote page.)  While I've synced these multiple platform  versions of OneNote, the syncing feels pretty slow and seems way less reliable than the Google Docs model of all editing the same actual document, and I've only synced with myself across multiple devices. I would want to do some pretty extensive testing before I would trust recommending the syncing across multiple users especially with regard to sync conflicts.  (I have zero concern about multiple users editing any Google Drive document.)

Searching on Windows OneNote is great and fast.  Not so on the other platforms and basically non-existent in the Web version (or at least I can't figure out how to seach actual OneNote content.)
Also, the Android and iPad OneNote apps seem to really suck battery life in my experience.  (I suspect that will get better.)

I honestly can't speak to the cloud versions of Word and Excel with regard to ink support and collaboration as I have not spent any time on them.  I honestly think that for the work most people in a school would do (except for a small number of office staff), that Google Drive is more than adequate and actually has some benefits over MS Office (financial being one, but not the only).  I understand the familiarity and learning curve argument, but we went through the major Office interface change 10 years ago, and I might argue that was harder than getting used to Google Apps.  (I would probably have led a move to Open Office at that time if it wasn't for Microsoft's ink support.)

Just thought I'd put this out there since I've heard others talk about OneNote as a plus when mentioning Office 365.  I hope Microsoft improves it with this new 365 branding and product push, but it is not there yet in my opinion.  As I work more cross platform, I'm actually moving to Evernote to replace OneNote for my individual use. It pains me a bit because it is nowhere close to as good as OneNote when you just compare the Windows clients, but the cross platform experience is better for me.  When there is any chance I'll be collaborating on a document, it is Google Drive for on all platforms I use.  (I tried collaborating using Evernote and found it to be seriously lacking specifically with regard to conflict resolution when more than one person edits a document.)

Regards,
Bill

--
Bill Campbell
Academic Technology Coordinator  |  Dwight-Englewood School
www.d-e.org
+1 201-569-9500 x3827  |  campbb@d-e.org
Twitter: BillCamp  |  Google+: bit.ly/BillAtGplus


Message from mike.cunningham@pct.edu

I am looking to talk to anyone currently on live@edu and being moved to Office 365. We run a split domain with employees on a local exchange system and students in the cloud, both using @pct.edu domain. All of our mail hits live@edu servers first and mail for non-students is forwarded to our local exchange for delivery. Work fine. We were less than a week from being moved to Office 365 when we were told by Microsoft that when we move students our employees would also get provisioned with an Office 365 mailbox and we would have to stop using our local Exchange system. Not good, not good at all. When we push Microsoft for details they said there was no way to do what we want and just have students in the cloud. They did not know of any other school that was running a single domain with students on live@edu and employees local. So, if you are a school doing what we are doing could you please RSVP to this off line so we can chat more. Thanks Mike Cunningham VP of Information Technology Services/CIO Pennsylvania College of Technology ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Mike, First - we don't do this. We choose two different name spaces for our on premise staff/faculty and Live@EDU student boxes to avoid the complications you are encountering. However, what you want to do should be possible. I think you would have to change your MX records so all mail lands with your on premise Exchange servers first. This article from MS describes how. http://help.outlook.com/140/cc967280.aspx David

Hello,

 

This session from the Mid-Atlantic Regional conference may be of help:

 

http://www.educause.edu/midatlantic-regional-conference/2013/taking-employee-e-mail-cloud-office-365

 

 

Kerri Mark, Assistant Librarian

EDUCAUSE
Uncommon Thinking for the Common Good
282 Century Place, Suite 5000, Louisville, CO 80027
main: 303.449.4430 | educause.edu

 

 

 

 

Mike - I have been involved in a number of Live@edu to Office 365 migrations as well as on-premise Exchange to Office 365 migrations. It sounds like you are getting some misinformation from your contact at Microsoft. First, there is no reason for you to have employee user accounts, mail contacts or mailboxes in Office 365. You can have only students in Office 365. Second, you can also share a common mail domain between Office 365 (students only) and on-premise Exchange (employees) and by doing so take advantage of the Exchange Online Protection (EOP) for email filtering (spam and antivirus). This may allow you to eliminate infrastructure and licensing costs for your current email gateway. There are some very knowledgeable people at Microsoft dedicated to Office 365 and higher education. If you want to contact me offline I can try to put you in contact with the right people at Microsoft to make sure you understand all of your options. Thanks, Scott 312 320 0035 Scott Weyandt, Ph.D. Director, IT Security and Infrastructure Planning Moran Technology Consulting scott.weyandt@morantechnology.com 877 214 2980 Tel/Fax
We are working on the both solution. We already use GAFE in a number of classes, but will be moving to O365 for our email. The primary reason for the move is to get the service offsite (thanks SANDY!) and the reason for choosing O365 is support for the Outlook Client. With a number of other project already underway for the summer, I don't have capacity to change the way all our administrative offices function if I remove Outlook. Mail works great everywhere, but the Calendar sync is crucial. The sync will occur, but it is far from foolproof, and as a "fool" who is currently using it, it breaks as often as it works.
My understanding is that we would not want to deploy both but it seems that teachers favor the Google solution and administrators/staff seem to favor the Microsoft solution. It would be interesting and helpful to know how others arrived a decision. Are there other opinions out there? Did you do a needs assessment? Are there some Google Docs schools that wish they were 365 or vice versa? Or is using parts of both environments the standard? We're still using FirstClass (hosted) as our collaborative platform and and have no institutional experience with GMail or Outlook. We like what we've seen so far in the FC version 12 beta it seems change is in the wind regardless. After 14 years, we are very entrenched in FirstClass conferences, and I'd be interested in hearing what others did with the content of them when they moved to Google or 365. Thanks in advance, Barbara The EDUCAUSE ACCESS Constituent Group Listserv on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 at 1:10 PM -0400 wrote: >Per Mary's request: > >About Google apps vs. Office 365 > >First off, I say sign up for both. There's no penalty for having both. > >Both offer cloud storage, productivity apps (word processing, >spreadsheets, etc), and email apps. Users could use both on the same >system, so it could be user/faculty/student preference. > >I personally like Office 365 for Education's service offering and (in my >opinion) Microsoft has tighter integration and better services: offline >document capability, Note-taking (OneNote), email (Outlook - [online or >off]), and cloud-storage (SkyDrive). > >The only mandatory decision to make: which service do you host your >school's email/archive email. Again, I prefer Microsoft's services. >NOTE: I am not aware of Google having any offline-email capability. > > >Hope this starts the conversation; as I always say: Your mileage may vary! > >J ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
When we moved from First Class to internal Microsoft Exchange it was a rough transition - IMAP was the only option at the time to export out of First Class, and with IMAP you can only export the INBOX folder (which meant if you had additional folders you had to dump the emails from them into the INBOX folder). Recently I discovered an export tool allowing First Class exporting to Outlook .pst format (http://www.aptiris.com/Products/FC_Utilities) I cannot comment on why we choose Microsoft Exchange versus Google Apps for Education as it was not an option (or at least a free option) at the time we migrated. When we moved to Microsoft Exchange we used that transition to pare down the number of First Class conferences [Microsoft Exchange had public folders]. We then moved those public folders into our website (for things like common calendars) or into our LMS (at that time it was Moodle, now it's Schoology). J
I can't speak to FirstClass, but here is my tale of Google Apps for Education. When I arrived at LCDS, we were an Exchange / Outlook school. As a certified Microsoft Engineer and an Exchange guy from way back, I was completely comfortable with sticking with the platform.

However, after dabbling with GAE for a while, both me and my technology integration people decided that we would benefit greatly as an institution by moving away from Exchange to Google Apps. The main reason? Collaboration. Google Apps collaboration is by far the most compelling reason and can be transformative in a school. Additional benefits are:

* It's free
* it works in any browser
* it works on an iPad (this was a struggle at first, but now it's pretty great)
* Provides 5 GB storage for each faculty and staff that is not maintained by me.
* once they move their files into it, the need for complicated vpns or remote access goes away.
* It gets us away from dependence on MS Office (I love MS Office, but I rarely use it)
* Provides mail that is available anyhere on any platform that is not maintained by me.
* Provides quick and dirty survey forms that put data directly into spreadsheets for analysis and manipulation.

We also decided that everyone would be moved over. The biggest complaints came from the office staff and particularly the division adminstrative assistants who fully utilized the Outlook Calendar. My response was that we couldn't forgo the education value of Google Apps just to make support staff's life easier. I can tell you that they now all appreciate the greater functionality of Google Apps and don't really look back. 


Mike Schmelder
Director of Information Services

Lancaster Country Day School
725 Hamilton Road
Lancaster, PA  17603-2491

717.392.2916 x246

www.lancastercountryday.org

  



Message from mlederer@chapinschool.org

We’re planning on doing a mixture next year.  We’re moving our on-site exchange to the A2 Office 365 for reasons of moving it offsite, it will be cheaper, and it should be a relatively easy transition for my staff.  I think not disrupting our shared calendar feature is a factor besides not introducing a whole new interface.
 
We have been using Google Apps for reasons of collaboration and that it works well in most browsers (I have my doubts about Safari) but I use FireFox, Chrome and IE routinely.  I can’t say that I agree that Google Docs work well on the iPad if you want to insert comments and I find editing tough (not composing) no matter which app I’ve tried.  We’ve used the survey and forms too.
 
I use the AD sync and the password sync for Google Apps.
 
If I had my way I would move my students email to Google (so that they just go to one place for all items) and keep my staff and faculty on Exchange next year.  I could probably do this someway, but I’m not sure I want to take on another layer of complexity this summer.
 
After next year, when I am not throwing other changes at them (read probable Windows 8 implementation) we may move the email to Google, again to have them get everything from one site.
 
On the other hand, we’ll be quietly experimenting with the Office 365 web apps next year to see if we can drop the full office installation for some students.
 
Mark Lederer
Director of Technology
Chapin School
Princeton, NJ 08540
 
From: Mike Schmelder
Sent: ‎May‎ ‎9‎, ‎2013 ‎10‎:‎34‎ ‎AM
To: ACCESS@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [ACCESS] question for those who have moved to Office 365
 
I can't speak to FirstClass, but here is my tale of Google Apps for Education. When I arrived at LCDS, we were an Exchange / Outlook school. As a certified Microsoft Engineer and an Exchange guy from way back, I was completely comfortable with sticking with the platform.

However, after dabbling with GAE for a while, both me and my technology integration people decided that we would benefit greatly as an institution by moving away from Exchange to Google Apps. The main reason? Collaboration. Google Apps collaboration is by far the most compelling reason and can be transformative in a school. Additional benefits are:

* It's free
* it works in any browser
* it works on an iPad (this was a struggle at first, but now it's pretty great)
* Provides 5 GB storage for each faculty and staff that is not maintained by me.
* once they move their files into it, the need for complicated vpns or remote access goes away.
* It gets us away from dependence on MS Office (I love MS Office, but I rarely use it)
* Provides mail that is available anyhere on any platform that is not maintained by me.
* Provides quick and dirty survey forms that put data directly into spreadsheets for analysis and manipulation.

We also decided that everyone would be moved over. The biggest complaints came from the office staff and particularly the division adminstrative assistants who fully utilized the Outlook Calendar. My response was that we couldn't forgo the education value of Google Apps just to make support staff's life easier. I can tell you that they now all appreciate the greater functionality of Google Apps and don't really look back. 


Mike Schmelder
Director of Information Services

Lancaster Country Day School
725 Hamilton Road
Lancaster, PA  17603-2491

717.392.2916 x246

www.lancastercountryday.org

  

 

 



Sorry this is a little off topic from the title of this thread, but other posts seem to have moved it to a comparing advantages of Google Apps for Ed and Office 365.  (Are the "holy wars" like the old Mac vs PC and newer iPhone vs Android now moving to cloud too?)

I love OneNote and have been using it on Windows for about 8 years.  I have the paid Android version on my phone, the iOS version on my iPad, and ocassionally used the online version available at skydrive.live.com when I was using a Chromebook.  I've also been syncing a few notebooks between all of those sources for over a year.  OneNote is the only Microsoft app (until very recently) I fired up on a daily basis.

I use Google documents, sheets, and presentations (along with Gmail) instead of MS Office multiple times a day in my personal and professional life.  Google has no good replacement for OneNote so, on the surface, that would a pretty compelling reason to look at Office 365.

Carolyn's message encouraged me to reply because I know she has used Windows Tablet PCs a lot, which is a great pairing with OneNote due excellent ink support.  With that in mind, I warn those who haven't tried the Android, iOS and web versions of OneNote to NOT assume they are equivalent to OneNote for Windows.  You can't create ink on any of the non-Windows versions and while it has improved, viewing ink isn't always seamless. Even without inking, editing on other platforms is more limited than the Windows version with regard to great features I used to live by in Windows OneNote.  (e.g. Collapsing any indented paragraphs on a OneNote page.)  While I've synced these multiple platform  versions of OneNote, the syncing feels pretty slow and seems way less reliable than the Google Docs model of all editing the same actual document, and I've only synced with myself across multiple devices. I would want to do some pretty extensive testing before I would trust recommending the syncing across multiple users especially with regard to sync conflicts.  (I have zero concern about multiple users editing any Google Drive document.)

Searching on Windows OneNote is great and fast.  Not so on the other platforms and basically non-existent in the Web version (or at least I can't figure out how to seach actual OneNote content.)
Also, the Android and iPad OneNote apps seem to really suck battery life in my experience.  (I suspect that will get better.)

I honestly can't speak to the cloud versions of Word and Excel with regard to ink support and collaboration as I have not spent any time on them.  I honestly think that for the work most people in a school would do (except for a small number of office staff), that Google Drive is more than adequate and actually has some benefits over MS Office (financial being one, but not the only).  I understand the familiarity and learning curve argument, but we went through the major Office interface change 10 years ago, and I might argue that was harder than getting used to Google Apps.  (I would probably have led a move to Open Office at that time if it wasn't for Microsoft's ink support.)

Just thought I'd put this out there since I've heard others talk about OneNote as a plus when mentioning Office 365.  I hope Microsoft improves it with this new 365 branding and product push, but it is not there yet in my opinion.  As I work more cross platform, I'm actually moving to Evernote to replace OneNote for my individual use. It pains me a bit because it is nowhere close to as good as OneNote when you just compare the Windows clients, but the cross platform experience is better for me.  When there is any chance I'll be collaborating on a document, it is Google Drive for on all platforms I use.  (I tried collaborating using Evernote and found it to be seriously lacking specifically with regard to conflict resolution when more than one person edits a document.)

Regards,
Bill

--
Bill Campbell
Academic Technology Coordinator  |  Dwight-Englewood School
www.d-e.org
+1 201-569-9500 x3827  |  campbb@d-e.org
Twitter: BillCamp  |  Google+: bit.ly/BillAtGplus


I concur with Bill's assessment completely. I use Evernote for universal note taking and Google Docs for anything related to collaboration.

Mike Schmelder
Director of Information Services

Lancaster Country Day School
725 Hamilton Road
Lancaster, PA  17603-2491

717.392.2916 x246

www.lancastercountryday.org

  



Message from mlederer@chapinschool.org

Just food for thought. There are subscription versions for Office Pro plus and an A3 level which allows an office pro plus on 5 devices per user.  The A3, which includes full domain level email archiving, is 4.50 per employee per month and 2.50 per student per month (I think - I don't have my files in front of me.)  Pro plus includes One Note.

Mark Lederer

From Mark Lederer's mobile phone
Director of Technology
Chapin School
mlederer@chapinschool.org



-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: [ACCESS] question for those who have moved to Office 365
From: Bill Campbell <campbb@D-E.ORG>
To: "ACCESS@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU" <ACCESS@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
CC:


Sorry this is a little off topic from the title of this thread, but other posts seem to have moved it to a comparing advantages of Google Apps for Ed and Office 365.  (Are the "holy wars" like the old Mac vs PC and newer iPhone vs Android now moving to cloud too?)

I love OneNote and have been using it on Windows for about 8 years.  I have the paid Android version on my phone, the iOS version on my iPad, and ocassionally used the online version available at skydrive.live.com when I was using a Chromebook.  I've also been syncing a few notebooks between all of those sources for over a year.  OneNote is the only Microsoft app (until very recently) I fired up on a daily basis.

I use Google documents, sheets, and presentations (along with Gmail) instead of MS Office multiple times a day in my personal and professional life.  Google has no good replacement for OneNote so, on the surface, that would a pretty compelling reason to look at Office 365.

Carolyn's message encouraged me to reply because I know she has used Windows Tablet PCs a lot, which is a great pairing with OneNote due excellent ink support.  With that in mind, I warn those who haven't tried the Android, iOS and web versions of OneNote to NOT assume they are equivalent to OneNote for Windows.  You can't create ink on any of the non-Windows versions and while it has improved, viewing ink isn't always seamless. Even without inking, editing on other platforms is more limited than the Windows version with regard to great features I used to live by in Windows OneNote.  (e.g. Collapsing any indented paragraphs on a OneNote page.)  While I've synced these multiple platform  versions of OneNote, the syncing feels pretty slow and seems way less reliable than the Google Docs model of all editing the same actual document, and I've only synced with myself across multiple devices. I would want to do some pretty extensive testing before I would trust recommending the syncing across multiple users especially with regard to sync conflicts.  (I have zero concern about multiple users editing any Google Drive document.)

Searching on Windows OneNote is great and fast.  Not so on the other platforms and basically non-existent in the Web version (or at least I can't figure out how to seach actual OneNote content.)
Also, the Android and iPad OneNote apps seem to really suck battery life in my experience.  (I suspect that will get better.)

I honestly can't speak to the cloud versions of Word and Excel with regard to ink support and collaboration as I have not spent any time on them.  I honestly think that for the work most people in a school would do (except for a small number of office staff), that Google Drive is more than adequate and actually has some benefits over MS Office (financial being one, but not the only).  I understand the familiarity and learning curve argument, but we went through the major Office interface change 10 years ago, and I might argue that was harder than getting used to Google Apps.  (I would probably have led a move to Open Office at that time if it wasn't for Microsoft's ink support.)

Just thought I'd put this out there since I've heard others talk about OneNote as a plus when mentioning Office 365.  I hope Microsoft improves it with this new 365 branding and product push, but it is not there yet in my opinion.  As I work more cross platform, I'm actually moving to Evernote to replace OneNote for my individual use. It pains me a bit because it is nowhere close to as good as OneNote when you just compare the Windows clients, but the cross platform experience is better for me.  When there is any chance I'll be collaborating on a document, it is Google Drive for on all platforms I use.  (I tried collaborating using Evernote and found it to be seriously lacking specifically with regard to conflict resolution when more than one person edits a document.)

Regards,
Bill

--
Bill Campbell
Academic Technology Coordinator  |  Dwight-Englewood School
www.d-e.org
+1 201-569-9500 x3827  |  campbb@d-e.org
Twitter: BillCamp  |  Google+: bit.ly/BillAtGplus


Message from mike.cunningham@pct.edu

I am looking to talk to anyone currently on live@edu and being moved to Office 365. We run a split domain with employees on a local exchange system and students in the cloud, both using @pct.edu domain. All of our mail hits live@edu servers first and mail for non-students is forwarded to our local exchange for delivery. Work fine. We were less than a week from being moved to Office 365 when we were told by Microsoft that when we move students our employees would also get provisioned with an Office 365 mailbox and we would have to stop using our local Exchange system. Not good, not good at all. When we push Microsoft for details they said there was no way to do what we want and just have students in the cloud. They did not know of any other school that was running a single domain with students on live@edu and employees local. So, if you are a school doing what we are doing could you please RSVP to this off line so we can chat more. Thanks Mike Cunningham VP of Information Technology Services/CIO Pennsylvania College of Technology ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
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