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Message from shafiear@ucmail.uc.edu

Has anyone done a comparative analysis for his/her school on which is preferable or more cost-effective an EEA or a ETLA?

I know you can get the EEA from resellers and they can be more competitive perhaps.

 

I appreciate any thoughts on this matter.

 

Thanks you.

 

Amin Shafie

UC Information Technologies (UCIT)

513-556-9001

Amin.Shafie@UC.Edu

 

********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Comments

Is EEA available in North America?  At http://www.adobe.com/volume-licensing/education/enterprise-agreement.html, under the “Minimum initial purchase requirement” section, it says “Higher education institution” then a dagger symbol.  When you read further to see what the dagger symbol represents, it reads:

 

“Higher education institution (per FTE): This option is currently not available in North America …”

 

On this subject somewhat: is there ANY Adobe licensing method apart from an Adobe Enterprise Term Licensing Agreement (ETLA) that allows higher education institutions in North America to install Creative Cloud in computer labs for use by students (i.e., multiple-user multiple-machine scenarios)?

 

- Rick

 

.- / -.-. .-.. ..- . / ..-. --- .-. / -.-- --- ..- / .- .-.. .-..

Rick Engelhardt    http://staff.buffalostate.edu/engelhrb/

- .... . / .-- .- .-.. .-. ..- ... / .-- .- ... / .--. .- ..- .-..

 

Our Adobe rep said we could use an EEA to install CC in labs.

Sent from my iPhone

EEA, you need to have a license for "every" computer that it's installed to on labs (no concurrent licensing).

Darrell Lutey
Assistant Director, 702-895-0763
Office of Information Technology, UNLV
CBC B129 / Mail Stop 7040
http://oit.unlv.edu  |  Twitter@unlv_oit
IT Help Desk: 702-895-0777




From:        "Leatherwood, Aaron" <leatherw@OHIO.EDU>
To:        LICENSING@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Date:        07/25/2013 09:44 AM
Subject:        Re: [LICENSING] Adobe's EEA vs. ETLA
Sent by:        The EDUCAUSE Software Licensing Issues Constituent Group Listserv <LICENSING@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>



Our Adobe rep said we could use an EEA to install CC in labs.

Sent from my iPhone

My understanding is that concurrency is still permitted for labs.  Here's from their July 2103 CLP doc.

CLP Education members may order concurrent licenses
for lab use of certain Adobe products. However, this
option may be subject to additional fees, and the Program Member must maintain and use adequate
verification or monitoring software to manage the concurrency. Concurrency is not available to the
Commercial or Government market segments

Our system contract is still being negotiated with Adobe, but it's really just around pricing as I understand it. 

jkt

Janice K. Tulloss, PhD, ASM
Software Licensing Coordinator
ITS - Client Services
202 Forney Bldg.
UNC Greensboro
Greensboro, NC 27412

336-542-2805 (Google Voice)



Er, make that 2013.   I know they plan ahead but....

Janice K. Tulloss, PhD, ASM
Software Licensing Coordinator
ITS - Client Services
202 Forney Bldg.
UNC Greensboro
Greensboro, NC 27412

336-542-2805 (Google Voice)



Yes, with CLP creative suite, not Creative Cloud and EEA.

Darrell Lutey
Assistant Director, 702-895-0763
Office of Information Technology, UNLV
CBC B129 / Mail Stop 7040
http://oit.unlv.edu  |  Twitter@unlv_oit
IT Help Desk: 702-895-0777




From:        Janice Tulloss <Janice_Tulloss@UNCG.EDU>
To:        LICENSING@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Date:        07/25/2013 10:30 AM
Subject:        Re: [LICENSING] Adobe's EEA vs. ETLA
Sent by:        The EDUCAUSE Software Licensing Issues Constituent Group Listserv <LICENSING@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>



My understanding is that concurrency is still permitted for labs.  Here's from their July 2103 CLP doc.

CLP Education members may order concurrent licenses
for lab use of certain Adobe products. However, this
option may be subject to additional fees, and the Program Member must maintain and use adequate
verification or monitoring software to manage the concurrency. Concurrency is not available to the
Commercial or Government market segments

Our system contract is still being negotiated with Adobe, but it's really just around pricing as I understand it. 

jkt

Janice K. Tulloss, PhD, ASM
Software Licensing Coordinator
ITS - Client Services
202 Forney Bldg.
UNC Greensboro
Greensboro, NC 27412

336-542-2805 (Google Voice)



We were told that we would be able to deploy the CC apps on a CUL basis.  So clearly confusion continues to abound.

jkt

Janice K. Tulloss, PhD, ASM
Software Licensing Coordinator
ITS - Client Services
202 Forney Bldg.
UNC Greensboro
Greensboro, NC 27412

336-542-2805 (Google Voice)



I think it's also indicative that they haven't settled on what these different programs really mean in an educational environment.  We're not planning on upgrading for at least another year, and are going to be pursuing alternatives in the meantime.

My KeyServer stats show the usage by students is actually very low, and is dwarfed by office use.  I have a feeling for the immediate future, departments will continue to enter into individual agreements, and we'll keep the labs and those who want to continue to use it, on CS6.  A lot can change in 12 months.

jkt

Janice K. Tulloss, PhD, ASM
Software Licensing Coordinator
ITS - Client Services
202 Forney Bldg.
UNC Greensboro
Greensboro, NC 27412

336-542-2805 (Google Voice)



That means that the per-FTE option is not available for North American Higher Ed institutions under an EEA. It can be licensed per-installation. So yes, it's my understanding that EEA could be used to license a lab, but you'd need a subscription for every installation.

It's also my understanding that the online components of CC (cloud storage, collaboration, Behance, etc) cannot currently be used under either an EEA or ETLA because the tools to create those cloud-enabled enterprise installations do not yet exist. Adobe says they're coming in the next 6 months or so. All you get now are the CC apps.

On 7/25/2013 11:39 AM, Engelhardt, Richard wrote:

Is EEA available in North America?  At http://www.adobe.com/volume-licensing/education/enterprise-agreement.html, under the “Minimum initial purchase requirement” section, it says “Higher education institution” then a dagger symbol.  When you read further to see what the dagger symbol represents, it reads:

 

“Higher education institution (per FTE): This option is currently not available in North America …”

 

On this subject somewhat: is there ANY Adobe licensing method apart from an Adobe Enterprise Term Licensing Agreement (ETLA) that allows higher education institutions in North America to install Creative Cloud in computer labs for use by students (i.e., multiple-user multiple-machine scenarios)?

 

- Rick

 

.- / -.-. .-.. ..- . / ..-. --- .-. / -.-- --- ..- / .- .-.. .-..

Rick Engelhardt    http://staff.buffalostate.edu/engelhrb/

- .... . / .-- .- .-.. .-. ..- ... / .-- .- ... / .--. .- ..- .-..

 

I wanted to clarify my statement - we were told that we could continue to use CULs in our computer labs ONLY.  I may in fact have been misinformed by our rep, who was very new, at the earliest stages of these conversations, and they may eliminate our ability to use CULs in the labs with the coming of CC.  In which case we will definitely be looking for alternatives because the usage in our labs is actually surprisingly low for most of the apps, and some of it may be "recreational" rather than curricular.  Licensing it in all of our labs so a handful of people can use it doesn't seem like a good deal.

jkt

Janice K. Tulloss, PhD, ASM
Software Licensing Coordinator
ITS - Client Services
202 Forney Bldg.
UNC Greensboro
Greensboro, NC 27412

336-542-2805 (Google Voice)



Message from shafiear@ucmail.uc.edu

Hi Janice, Thank you and thanks to all who responded to my inquiry regarding this matter. Amin Shafie ________________________________________ From: The EDUCAUSE Software Licensing Issues Constituent Group Listserv [LICENSING@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Janice Tulloss [Janice_Tulloss@UNCG.EDU] Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 9:16 AM To: LICENSING@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [LICENSING] Adobe's EEA vs. ETLA I wanted to clarify my statement - we were told that we could continue to use CULs in our computer labs ONLY. I may in fact have been misinformed by our rep, who was very new, at the earliest stages of these conversations, and they may eliminate our ability to use CULs in the labs with the coming of CC. In which case we will definitely be looking for alternatives because the usage in our labs is actually surprisingly low for most of the apps, and some of it may be "recreational" rather than curricular. Licensing it in all of our labs so a handful of people can use it doesn't seem like a good deal. jkt Janice K. Tulloss, PhD, ASM Software Licensing Coordinator ITS - Client Services 202 Forney Bldg. UNC Greensboro Greensboro, NC 27412 336-542-2805 (Google Voice)
Message from mvanhevele@wayne.edu

Hi Amin,

I have been in discussion with our Adobe reps about our licensing options.  I centrally manage our current CLP and former student contract and offer for purchase (we are a cost recovery operation) by departments and students individual copies of Adobe software on our web store as well as distribute for labs.

I have come to the following conclusions regarding what is currently offered:

The ETLA is too expensive for our university as our volumes are not high enough to justify the cost of covering every FTE.  I was told that we could cover a department for just the Suite (Collection) product and could then cover the entire campus for just Acrobat.  Our most used product on campus is Acrobat, but not nearly even close enough does every departmental FTE need Pro, so we could not justify an approximate $70,000 annually for full Acrobat coverage.  And regarding any department that may want the CC Suite, again not every FTE in the department uses the full suite and thus we could not at this point justify the expense.

The EEA allows for per user purchase of the Design & Web and Video Collections.  The problem with this contract is that it is not prorated.  Thus every time a user requests this product either a new EEA needs to be created or the user gets less usage time if using the current EEA (unless licenses are preordered and then sold, which is not an option for us).   It was suggested that possibly we could create 12 monthly EEAs and use a new one each month so as to lose usage time.

Also, the EEA does not allow for Home Use (yet), does not have Cloud storage, and does not include all the products in the CC product marketed for Students and Teachers (sold in EEA as Design and Web Premium Collection, Video Collection, Lightroom separately). 

I am not pleased with the price points for this agreement either. If you compare pricing the Student/Teacher Edition is $19.99/month $240/yr, whereas if you bought the comparable product through EEA the cost is about $370.00 (from the distributor).  So I am struggling with why the departmental licensing is so much more than the Student/Teacher Edition, as it hadn't been in the past for CS6.
I was told this was the option I would need to use for our labs and after speaking with the rep she agreed this is not optimal for individual distribution.  She recommended the Team product for that use.  

The CC for Teams I am told allows for home use and also allows immediate deployment of individual licenses to users at their time of purchase, not when the Team account is created.  I am looking into this more but my major issue with this again pricing.  An educational discounted team subscription is $40/month $480/year.  This is more than anything else offered and for the single user that does not utilize any of the Team tools or resources is too expensive of an option.

I am hopeful Adobe will make improvements to their programs once they realize that they are not covering all licensing needs.  For the time being I am pursuing multiple EEAs as the Team product is too costly.

Mary

From: "Amin Shafie (shafiear)" <SHAFIEAR@UCMAIL.UC.EDU>
To: LICENSING@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 12:30:26 PM
Subject: [LICENSING] Adobe's EEA vs. ETLA

Has anyone done a comparative analysis for his/her school on which is preferable or more cost-effective an EEA or a ETLA?

I know you can get the EEA from resellers and they can be more competitive perhaps.

 

I appreciate any thoughts on this matter.

 

Thanks you.

 

Amin Shafie

UC Information Technologies (UCIT)

513-556-9001

Amin.Shafie@UC.Edu

 

********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.




--
Mary VanHevele
Associate Director, Customer Services
Software Clearinghouse/PC Clinic
Computing and Information Technology
Wayne State University
Office 313-577-7577
Cell 586-876-3000


********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Great info, Mary.  So, regarding the labs, you're told that you have to buy an individual license for the entire suite for each lab machine, under an EEA?  I wasn't clear if you were saying you'd pay the same as the commercial price for student/teacher, $240 per year, for the lab machines, or if that would cost the $370. 

The idea of having to manage monthly EEAs seems absolutely insane.

jkt

Janice K. Tulloss, PhD, ASM
Software Licensing Coordinator
ITS - Client Services
202 Forney Bldg.
UNC Greensboro
Greensboro, NC 27412

336-542-2805 (Google Voice)



Very helpful Mary.

If the difference in pricing was due to concurrent usage, I could understand it being higher as you would buy n number needed for x seats. ??

am not pleased with the price points for this agreement either. If you compare pricing the Student/Teacher Edition is $19.99/month $240/yr, whereas if you bought the comparable product through EEA the cost is about $370.00 (from the distributor).  So I am struggling with why the departmental licensing is so much more than the Student/Teacher Edition, as it hadn't been in the past for CS6.
I was told this was the option I would need to use for our labs and after speaking with the rep she agreed this is not optimal for individual distribution.  She recommended the Team product for that use.   

Sent from my iPad
Margaret (Marg) H. Knox
The University of Texas System

Message from sschwerdt@mssg.rutgers.edu

Hi Mary,

 

We are the same type of setup where we have central licensing and cost recovery.  Can I just have an idea of what your FTE is because I am getting questions from my users as to why we haven’t gotten this Adobe CC thing worked out already.  Most people do have a clue how bad this really is and you have written it out so clearly.

 

Thank you,

Susan Schwerdt

License Software Manager

Office of Information Technology

Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey

ASB Annex II Rm 152E

58 Bevier Road

Piscataway, NJ 08854-8010

Phone 848-445-6950 ext 56034

Fax     732-445-3332

https://software.rutgers.edu/

RutgersIT Blog https://rutgersit.rutgers.edu/

RutgersIT Twitter http://twitter.com/RutgersIT

 

Message from mvanhevele@wayne.edu

Hi Janice,

Sorry I confused subjects a bit, as my frustrations with their price points are many.

A lab seat under EEA if you just want Design and Web Collection is just under $200 (cost).  If you need more products contained in the Video Collection this is an additional $200.  Lightroom is not included in either and is an additional $50. 

If your needs only require part of the Collection you may pay as low as the $200 per seat.   This would apply to any amount orders, labs or individuals.

But if you want exactly what the consumer is getting you would be paying about $450 vs the $240 that a student or teacher can purchase on their own (and they get the Cloud storage at well).

Regarding management of individual purchases, I have complained strongly that I will be unable to control faculty that see a price of $240 online, which is not supposed to be used for departmental machines (even though the store does not say that) and direct them to purchase from me for twice the price.

I agree that managing multiple agreements is an outrageous idea.  They need to either implement prorated pricing or apply the same rules and management console they have offered for Teams for the EEA contract IMHO.

From: "Janice Tulloss" <Janice_Tulloss@UNCG.EDU>
To: LICENSING@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 2:56:10 PM
Subject: Re: [LICENSING] Adobe's EEA vs. ETLA

Great info, Mary.  So, regarding the labs, you're told that you have to buy an individual license for the entire suite for each lab machine, under an EEA?  I wasn't clear if you were saying you'd pay the same as the commercial price for student/teacher, $240 per year, for the lab machines, or if that would cost the $370. 

The idea of having to manage monthly EEAs seems absolutely insane.

jkt

Janice K. Tulloss, PhD, ASM
Software Licensing Coordinator
ITS - Client Services
202 Forney Bldg.
UNC Greensboro
Greensboro, NC 27412

336-542-2805 (Google Voice)



Message from mvanhevele@wayne.edu

I agree, but I was not lead to believe this at all as the contract does not mention lab usage.  It was in a conversation that the rep mentioned that the EEA was good for labs because you purchase a lot of seats at the same time.

When I expressed that I want to purchase seats when I need, and it may be 1 or 21,  then she realized that this contract did not meet my needs.

We also currently do not use concurrent license in our labs as they are classrooms as well.

From: "Marg Knox" <mknox@AUSTIN.UTEXAS.EDU>
To: LICENSING@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 2:57:13 PM
Subject: Re: [LICENSING] Adobe's EEA vs. ETLA

Very helpful Mary.

If the difference in pricing was due to concurrent usage, I could understand it being higher as you would buy n number needed for x seats. ??

am not pleased with the price points for this agreement either. If you compare pricing the Student/Teacher Edition is $19.99/month $240/yr, whereas if you bought the comparable product through EEA the cost is about $370.00 (from the distributor).  So I am struggling with why the departmental licensing is so much more than the Student/Teacher Edition, as it hadn't been in the past for CS6.
I was told this was the option I would need to use for our labs and after speaking with the rep she agreed this is not optimal for individual distribution.  She recommended the Team product for that use.   

Sent from my iPad
Margaret (Marg) H. Knox
The University of Texas System

Message from mvanhevele@wayne.edu

Hi Susan,

We have about 7200 departmental FTEs.

I have a group that has been interested in the new product prior to the contract even being released.  This group installation is for a lab, so I'm hoping at the very least I can push through a single EEA and get them some software and then work on how I'm going to manage for the rest of the campus.

Message from shafiear@ucmail.uc.edu

Dear Mary, Thank you so much for this analysis. It is very close to what we are coming to conclude. We too have been in extensive discussions with our Adobe reps and had hoped for a a very reasonable outcome by now, before the start of the new academic year in late August. We too are still hopeful to see some signs for some flexibility. We place a high priority on the needs of our students and will need to see how Adobe responds to us including them in our final licensing model. We have had a CLP for a number of years now and are using the stats from it to help define the future needs of our Community. Regards and many thanks again. Amin Shafie University of Cincinnati 513-556-9001 ________________________________________
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