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We are replacing the wireless in one of our buildings and I was wondering what POE-Edge switches should I buy. I am going to have about 180 APs in the building. We are a Cisco shop but I am open to buying another brand.  

 

---
Nicholas Urrea
UC Hastings College of the Law

Network and Systems Engineer
Information Technology
e: urrean@uchastings.edu
ext: 4718
helpdesk:
e: helpdesk@uchastings.edu
ph: 415-581-8802

 

********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Comments

Well, are there reason why you would want to move away from Cisco for the edge other than cost?  Are you running PVST+ on your network?  Are you running anything such as VMPS or any cisco proprietary function on your edge switches that would need to change if you switch vendors? 


We use 3750X switches with extra power supplies and power-stack them together. Kenneth V. Mattson III Director - Network and Data DoIT Creighton University 402-280-2743 402-981-1140 A password is like a toothbrush: Choose a good one, change it regularly and don't share it.

If you are looking at the Cisco3600 APs for the future expansion snap-on module to 802.11AC, remember the 3600 WAPs only require PoE but the 802.11AC module requires PoE+, so if you are headed that way make sure you are buying PoE+ switches.

 

 

Wyatt Schill

Network Engineer - GRCC

 

 

We're using Brocade FCX 648GS switches here for new installations.  We've been very happy with them.

I would also say, regardless of brand, choose one that supports PoE+.  Newer access points will take advantage of (or may require) the increase in power to provide stronger RF output.

Best,
Matt
-- Matt Richard '08 Access and Security Coordinator Information Technology Services Franklin & Marshall College matt.richard@fandm.edu
Message from apage@nd.edu

We have been using the 2960S-48FPD and FPS in our environment, which so far have worked well.

 

--------------
Andy Page
Network Design Professional
University of Notre Dame
574.631.6592

Go Irish!

 

 

On 1/3/2013 10:30 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:

We are replacing the wireless in one of our buildings and I was wondering what POE-Edge switches should I buy. I am going to have about 180 APs in the building. We are a Cisco shop but I am open to buying another brand. 


We're at the closing end of a lengthy learning / trial / evaluation end of this spectrum.  I'm hesitant to post public details but just let me say that "your mileage may vary" and go ahead with it.

Our initial PoE requirements (we are an Aruba shop) were for AP65s, which won't do more than 100Mbps, so the initial criteria was 100Mbps PoE, and not necessarily that many ports.  We initially went with Procurve 2610s, either the 24-port PoE, or split 12/12 PoE ones.  Downside - Procurves don't play well with spanning tree on our mostly Cisco network (PVST protocol).

We had some "contracted" security camera installations that had similar requirements (100Mbps) and also used Procurves.

Now that we're installing 802.11n APs (Aruba 105s, 125s, 135s) we're looking at gigabit PoE.  We're also looking at VoIP with the possibility of having the VoIP phones with the data jacks integrated (tagged trunk voice vlans) and thus more gigabit PoE options.

With all the convergence of PoE requirements and gig vs 100Mbps, we were looking at a standardized gigabit PoE we could deploy universally to avoid the constant wiring closet revisits to address PoE vs non-PoE, gig vs 100Mb, etc. 

There's also the looming PoE+ requirement of the bigger MIMO APs... although strictly speaking, 65s and 105s are still fine... so make that "Gig PoE+" as a driving factor.

When you get into PoE+ on an "x" port switch, you're likely not going to get PoE+ on all "x" ports, more like "x/2".  You may not even get standard PoE on all "x" ports.  If you are targeting your closets with PoE segregated (and thus all ports on the PoE switch need power) you need to insure you have the power budget.  If you are generalizing and thus not expecting 100% PoE requirements, you can be a bit more liberal.  In either case you may have some revisiting of the closets to either (1) move new PoE requirements/retire PoE retirements, or (2) rebalance your load to match power available.

Next we have the data plane...  "stackable" switches save you on uplink worries and ports.  There are a number of options here, but as others have mentioned Cisco, there is the 2960S and 3750X, but you can't stack across each other.  And on the 3750X you can't stack layer-3 (IP Base or Services) with the layer-2 (LAN Base) models, which gets expensive if you want a layer-3 uplink to anchor the stack (you have to get layer-3 throughout).

And we have power...  some of them have redundant power, or not-so-redundant power (two supplies if you need more than "x" watts of PoE).  And on the Cisco side you have the 3750X which can stack their power plane, while on the Brocade side (for example) there are external power supplies (for the ICX series, while the FCX requires a second inline power supply per chassis).

If you can afford them, 3750Xs are really feature rich :)  If you can't (like us), we're liking the Brocade ICX series.  I won't list the ones we looked at but didn't care for :)

Jeff

********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

You make some great points about the power budget for the whole switch. If you don’t need stacking, with the Cisco 3560x there are three different power supplies to account for the potential power budget. You can also get dual power supplies. I agree that it makes sense to standardize on PoE+ and Gigabit so that you don’t have to touch them again for a while. I couldn’t imagine installing anything less right now if you are looking at a 5 year lifecycle replacement.

 

Pete Morrissey

 

Well, are there reason why you would want to move away from Cisco for the edge other than cost?  Are you running PVST+ on your network?  Are you running anything such as VMPS or any cisco proprietary function on your edge switches that would need to change if you switch vendors? 


For large deployments like yours, we have been very satisfied with our Cisco 4506E chassis w/ 1Gig 48 port POE blades. If you choose to go the chassis route, make sure that you size the power supplies accordingly. Cheers, Joe Marentette Network Engineer Washington University in St. Louis Network Services & Support 314-935-7031 jmarentette@wustl.edu
We use 3750X switches with extra power supplies and power-stack them together. Kenneth V. Mattson III Director - Network and Data DoIT Creighton University 402-280-2743 402-981-1140 A password is like a toothbrush: Choose a good one, change it regularly and don't share it.

If you are looking at the Cisco3600 APs for the future expansion snap-on module to 802.11AC, remember the 3600 WAPs only require PoE but the 802.11AC module requires PoE+, so if you are headed that way make sure you are buying PoE+ switches.

 

 

Wyatt Schill

Network Engineer - GRCC

 

 

We're using Brocade FCX 648GS switches here for new installations.  We've been very happy with them.

I would also say, regardless of brand, choose one that supports PoE+.  Newer access points will take advantage of (or may require) the increase in power to provide stronger RF output.

Best,
Matt
-- Matt Richard '08 Access and Security Coordinator Information Technology Services Franklin & Marshall College matt.richard@fandm.edu
On 1/3/2013 10:30 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:

We are replacing the wireless in one of our buildings and I was wondering what POE-Edge switches should I buy. I am going to have about 180 APs in the building. We are a Cisco shop but I am open to buying another brand. 


We're at the closing end of a lengthy learning / trial / evaluation end of this spectrum.  I'm hesitant to post public details but just let me say that "your mileage may vary" and go ahead with it.

Our initial PoE requirements (we are an Aruba shop) were for AP65s, which won't do more than 100Mbps, so the initial criteria was 100Mbps PoE, and not necessarily that many ports.  We initially went with Procurve 2610s, either the 24-port PoE, or split 12/12 PoE ones.  Downside - Procurves don't play well with spanning tree on our mostly Cisco network (PVST protocol).

We had some "contracted" security camera installations that had similar requirements (100Mbps) and also used Procurves.

Now that we're installing 802.11n APs (Aruba 105s, 125s, 135s) we're looking at gigabit PoE.  We're also looking at VoIP with the possibility of having the VoIP phones with the data jacks integrated (tagged trunk voice vlans) and thus more gigabit PoE options.

With all the convergence of PoE requirements and gig vs 100Mbps, we were looking at a standardized gigabit PoE we could deploy universally to avoid the constant wiring closet revisits to address PoE vs non-PoE, gig vs 100Mb, etc. 

There's also the looming PoE+ requirement of the bigger MIMO APs... although strictly speaking, 65s and 105s are still fine... so make that "Gig PoE+" as a driving factor.

When you get into PoE+ on an "x" port switch, you're likely not going to get PoE+ on all "x" ports, more like "x/2".  You may not even get standard PoE on all "x" ports.  If you are targeting your closets with PoE segregated (and thus all ports on the PoE switch need power) you need to insure you have the power budget.  If you are generalizing and thus not expecting 100% PoE requirements, you can be a bit more liberal.  In either case you may have some revisiting of the closets to either (1) move new PoE requirements/retire PoE retirements, or (2) rebalance your load to match power available.

Next we have the data plane...  "stackable" switches save you on uplink worries and ports.  There are a number of options here, but as others have mentioned Cisco, there is the 2960S and 3750X, but you can't stack across each other.  And on the 3750X you can't stack layer-3 (IP Base or Services) with the layer-2 (LAN Base) models, which gets expensive if you want a layer-3 uplink to anchor the stack (you have to get layer-3 throughout).

And we have power...  some of them have redundant power, or not-so-redundant power (two supplies if you need more than "x" watts of PoE).  And on the Cisco side you have the 3750X which can stack their power plane, while on the Brocade side (for example) there are external power supplies (for the ICX series, while the FCX requires a second inline power supply per chassis).

If you can afford them, 3750Xs are really feature rich :)  If you can't (like us), we're liking the Brocade ICX series.  I won't list the ones we looked at but didn't care for :)

Jeff

********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

You make some great points about the power budget for the whole switch. If you don’t need stacking, with the Cisco 3560x there are three different power supplies to account for the potential power budget. You can also get dual power supplies. I agree that it makes sense to standardize on PoE+ and Gigabit so that you don’t have to touch them again for a while. I couldn’t imagine installing anything less right now if you are looking at a 5 year lifecycle replacement.

 

Pete Morrissey

 

We also like the 3750 X because of Cisco’s limited lifetime warranty for “desktop” switches.  The only two things not covered are the power supplies and fans, and both of those are removable modules on the X.

 

Kenneth V. Mattson III
Director - Network and Data
DoIT
Creighton University
402-280-2743
402-981-1140

A password is like a toothbrush:
Choose a good one, change it regularly and don't share it.

 

We are replacing the wireless in one of our buildings and I was wondering what POE-Edge switches should I buy. I am going to have about 180 APs in the building. We are a Cisco shop but I am open to buying another brand.  

 

---
Nicholas Urrea
UC Hastings College of the Law

Network and Systems Engineer
Information Technology
e: urrean@uchastings.edu
ext: 4718
helpdesk:
e: helpdesk@uchastings.edu
ph: 415-581-8802

 

********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Well, are there reason why you would want to move away from Cisco for the edge other than cost?  Are you running PVST+ on your network?  Are you running anything such as VMPS or any cisco proprietary function on your edge switches that would need to change if you switch vendors? 


For large deployments like yours, we have been very satisfied with our Cisco 4506E chassis w/ 1Gig 48 port POE blades. If you choose to go the chassis route, make sure that you size the power supplies accordingly. Cheers, Joe Marentette Network Engineer Washington University in St. Louis Network Services & Support 314-935-7031 jmarentette@wustl.edu
We use 3750X switches with extra power supplies and power-stack them together. Kenneth V. Mattson III Director - Network and Data DoIT Creighton University 402-280-2743 402-981-1140 A password is like a toothbrush: Choose a good one, change it regularly and don't share it.

If you are looking at the Cisco3600 APs for the future expansion snap-on module to 802.11AC, remember the 3600 WAPs only require PoE but the 802.11AC module requires PoE+, so if you are headed that way make sure you are buying PoE+ switches.

 

 

Wyatt Schill

Network Engineer - GRCC

 

 

We're using Brocade FCX 648GS switches here for new installations.  We've been very happy with them.

I would also say, regardless of brand, choose one that supports PoE+.  Newer access points will take advantage of (or may require) the increase in power to provide stronger RF output.

Best,
Matt
-- Matt Richard '08 Access and Security Coordinator Information Technology Services Franklin & Marshall College matt.richard@fandm.edu
We're using Brocade FCX 648GS switches here for new installations.  We've been very happy with them.

I would also say, regardless of brand, choose one that supports PoE+.  Newer access points will take advantage of (or may require) the increase in power to provide stronger RF output.

Best,
Matt
-- Matt Richard '08 Access and Security Coordinator Information Technology Services Franklin & Marshall College matt.richard@fandm.edu
We're using Brocade FCX 648GS switches here for new installations.  We've been very happy with them.

I would also say, regardless of brand, choose one that supports PoE+.  Newer access points will take advantage of (or may require) the increase in power to provide stronger RF output.

Best,
Matt
-- Matt Richard '08 Access and Security Coordinator Information Technology Services Franklin & Marshall College matt.richard@fandm.edu
We're using Brocade FCX 648GS switches here for new installations.  We've been very happy with them.

I would also say, regardless of brand, choose one that supports PoE+.  Newer access points will take advantage of (or may require) the increase in power to provide stronger RF output.

Best,
Matt
-- Matt Richard '08 Access and Security Coordinator Information Technology Services Franklin & Marshall College matt.richard@fandm.edu
We're using Brocade FCX 648GS switches here for new installations.  We've been very happy with them.

I would also say, regardless of brand, choose one that supports PoE+.  Newer access points will take advantage of (or may require) the increase in power to provide stronger RF output.

Best,
Matt
-- Matt Richard '08 Access and Security Coordinator Information Technology Services Franklin & Marshall College matt.richard@fandm.edu
We're using Brocade FCX 648GS switches here for new installations.  We've been very happy with them.

I would also say, regardless of brand, choose one that supports PoE+.  Newer access points will take advantage of (or may require) the increase in power to provide stronger RF output.

Best,
Matt
-- Matt Richard '08 Access and Security Coordinator Information Technology Services Franklin & Marshall College matt.richard@fandm.edu
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