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300+ signed thus far.

 

 

 

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Message from mathews@hawaii.edu


Lee, and All:

I wish to present a question mainly out of curiosity.  

Is there desire to cross-post the "message" as such, before other technically concerned parties, on other lists, such as ISP lists, the NOG lists etc.?   This may enlist more signatories.

Also, if there is the desire to educate other operators, there may be a need to work with a friendly/knowledgeable media entity (Wired etc.), or two, to structure a message for that purpose.  Such an approach would undoubtedly assist advance the purpose of the petition. 

If this matter was discussed, and I had missed the same,  I present my apologies in advance, for any 're-presenting' of that discussion.
--
Dr. Robert Mathews, D.Phil.
Distinguished Senior Research Scholar - National Security Affairs & US Industrial Preparedness
University of Hawai'i (OSIA)

|-- Sent from "the mother-ship," high above the "blue planet."


On 1 Aug 2012, at 11:13, Lee H Badman <lhbadman@SYR.EDU> wrote:

300+ signed thus far.

********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

I think it is a good question. One could argue that the more who sign it, the better.  I’m not sure though that this issue would be applicable to an ISP. The petition emanated from the frustrations of those directly involved in grappling with the problem. If anything, I would think a corporate network might be dealing with similar issues, but not an ISP. Correct me if I’m wrong about that. And the thing about a corporation is that while they are struggling with the whole BYOD thing, they do have a little more control over what goes on on their networks than educational institutions.  So I would say that one could make the case that this is really identified more with higher ed institutions than anything else. That’s my take anyway, although quite willing to entertain other opinions.

 

Pete Morrissey

Syracuse University

 

Dr. Mathews,

 

My own take is that anyone in IT that is feeling the pain will immediately recognize what our group is trying to accomplish and is welcome to add their comments and signature. I personally would rather not have to sell it or explain it just get a bigger base. Colleges and universities probably feel it more than anyone, but Apple themselves makes a case for AppleTV in the boardroom and BYOD is sweeping over the landscape, so I would expect that a minority of corporate IT types and integrators/contracted IT folks also “get it”.

 

Thanks-

 

Lee Badman

 

 

 

Message from mathews@hawaii.edu


On 8/1/2012 11:47 AM, Peter P Morrissey wrote:

I think it is a good question. One could argue that the more who sign it, the better.  I’m not sure though that this issue would be applicable to an ISP. The petition emanated from the frustrations of those directly involved in grappling with the problem. If anything, I would think a corporate network might be dealing with similar issues, but not an ISP.



Dear Peter:

Thank you, for your kind note.   Please permit me to clarify.   My message was not intended to suggest that the "issue" as such was applicable to ISPs or not.  Rather, it was the suggestion that 'technical people everywhere," should unite to indicate to Apple, the concern they have - as technical and thinking people.


Correct me if I’m wrong about that. And the thing about a corporation is that while they are struggling with the whole BYOD thing, they do have a little more control over what goes on on their networks than educational institutions. 


Again, this is how I assess it...  inspite of any BYOD inclination, it is only the SCALE of the problem that is likely to be different, and not the presence of the problem itself.   Please correct me - if I am incorrect in the assessment.

So I would say that one could make the case that this is really identified more with higher ed institutions than anything else. That’s my take anyway, although quite willing to entertain other opinions.

 

Pete Morrissey

Syracuse University


As I had shared in the aforementioned paragraph, I see this as, more a case where technical people stand together - on a technical issue - as it is related to 'a vendor,' albeit that this vendor happens to be selling a group of widely popular devices, globally. 

I believe we have had atleast one <1> European respondent (willing to assist in the propagation of the idea in Europe) to the petition...  :-)

All my very best.
--
************************************************
* Dr. Robert Mathews, D.Phil.
* Distinguished Senior Research Scholar
* National Security Affairs & U.S Industrial Preparedness
* Office of Scientific Inquiry and Applications
* University of Hawai'i
* E.mail: mathews at hawaii dot edu

********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Message from mathews@hawaii.edu



On 8/1/2012 11:55 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:


Dr. Mathews,

 

My own take is that anyone in IT that is feeling the pain will immediately recognize what our group is trying to accomplish and is welcome to add their comments and signature.



Good afternoon, Lee:

Thank you, for your note.  I follow your sentiment wholeheartedly. 


I personally would rather not have to sell it or explain it just get a bigger base.




Here, I suggest NO selling of any kind.  I simply wish to point to your aforementioned sentiment, as a way of reflecting upon this statement.   I am JUST NOT aware that the "word" related to this petition, is as common as one may be inclined to note as being.    Therefore, I was simply suggesting on getting the "word" out, as it were.

I do wish to offer the following thought, simply to means to ponder processes....   I should simply say: with a market capitalization in excess of US$550 billion, Apple is one of the world's largest corporations.  As such, if the goal is to initiate a "behavior change," or atleast to have them strongly contemplate a change, then, a request for such a change - must be presented reasonably, and in a proportionately weighted fashion.


Colleges and universities probably feel it more than anyone, but Apple themselves makes a case for AppleTV in the boardroom and BYOD is sweeping over the landscape, so I would expect that a minority of corporate IT types and integrators/contracted IT folks also “get it”.

 

Thanks-

 

Lee Badman



Indeed....  as I was suggesting to Peter just before, I simply assess this as a case where technical people could unite and stand together, while getting the "word," out to those who are likely concerned about the issue;  however, are equally likely to be unaware of the efforts behind this petition.

All my very best.
--
************************************************
* Dr. Robert Mathews, D.Phil.
* Distinguished Senior Research Scholar
* National Security Affairs & U.S Industrial Preparedness
* Office of Scientific Inquiry and Applications
* University of Hawai'i
* E.mail: mathews at hawaii dot edu

********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Well then… spread the word, brother! We’re live until  August 10th for signatures.

 

-Lee

 

 

Message from mathews@hawaii.edu


On 8/1/2012 2:06 PM, Lee H Badman wrote:

Well then… spread the word, brother! We’re live until  August 10th for signatures.

 

-Lee


Hi, Lee:   :-)

hehehehehe

Well, I am not sure, just what I am able to do, or should do...!    :-)     I was merely putting some suggestions forward...   maybe the organizers of the petition should have a "huddle," and choose a couple of action items?

If I can/am able to assist on a specific task, I am happy to do so....  please let me know privately as I am sure the list does not need to be flooded with that..    I assess that the organizers or petitioners should perhaps determine "how to get the word out" to others (tasks), who may have an equal concern...

All my very best.
--
************************************************
* Dr. Robert Mathews, D.Phil.
* Distinguished Senior Research Scholar
* National Security Affairs & U.S Industrial Preparedness
* Office of Scientific Inquiry and Applications
* University of Hawai'i
* E.mail: mathews at hawaii dot edu
********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Hi Robert,

 

Yes. I see your point. Support is good. Numbers make a statement as well. In my mind it is just an issue of credibility versus numbers. What really hit me after reading through many of the comments and positions of those who have signed thus far is that they make a powerful statement as the ones who are impacted, and who are looking to essentially “partner” with Apple in some way to make things better for all involved.

 

For example:

“Manager of IT Client Services at the University of British Columbia - Okanagan campus. So many of Apple's "consumer" devices would work well for our community but we are unable to support them due to this issue. We have a large number of innovative ideas, and researchers who are keen to act on them, that we would love to deliver as solutions for our community if Apple would be willing to do this. Better press for Apple, better support for our customers, happier users - everybody wins.”

 

To me, this says more than my technical brethren who are sympathetic to technical challenges, but don’t really have any skin in the game so to speak. My other thought was that there might be some value in having an identity as a group that has unique needs and unique value that would be reckoned with. All of this is of course is based upon the fantastical assumption that Apple will actually read the petition, or the comments, or even have a clue.

 

And there is that the petition does say “We the undersigned academic and research institutions…”

 

Regards,

Pete M.

 

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