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As I've said recently, I really wish that there was a standard that all APs would use and all controllers would use so that they could all talk together.  I know this is probably unlikely to happen, but we have interoperable wired networks and I just wish the same for the wireless side.  Maybe a universal controller is more realistic, something that understands how to talk to all types of APs.

--
Daniel Eklund
Network Planning Manager
ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers
University of Michigan
734.763.6389


Comments

Yes, I know I'm a starry eyed dreamer, but if we don't talk about this it may never happen.  I, for one, am not looking forward to the day when we have to somehow transition from 12,000 access points of one vendor to 12,000 from another and make the transition as seamless as possible.

--
Daniel Eklund
Network Planning Manager
ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers
University of Michigan
734.763.6389


Daniel,

 

There are too many custom features and proprietary closed protocols  to permit AP to controller interoperability.

 

For multi-vendor wireless monitoring & management, the Airwave AWMS (AMP) product has excelled for many years. Even though the product is now owned by Aruba Networks, Airwave has retained its multi-vendor features.

 

Bruce Osborne

Liberty University

 

From: Daniel Eklund [mailto:eklund@UMICH.EDU]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: New Cisco Wireless Gear - 5760WLC & Cat3850

 

As I've said recently, I really wish that there was a standard that all APs would use and all controllers would use so that they could all talk together.  I know this is probably unlikely to happen, but we have interoperable wired networks and I just wish the same for the wireless side.  Maybe a universal controller is more realistic, something that understands how to talk to all types of APs.

 

--

Daniel Eklund

Network Planning Manager

ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers

University of Michigan

734.763.6389

 

Just brainstorming here...

CAPWAP tried to accomplish some standardization for Controller/AP communication, but I haven't seen 
many CAPWAP compatible devices!

This said, if you follow what's happening with OpenFlow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenFlow) on switches,
and since switches and wireless equipment seem to progressively integrate, we could make a leap and think
that eventually there will be a common set of features that will be standardized for wireless as well.

OpenFlow accomplishes on switches what we have been doing with wireless for a few years:
Separation of control plane and data plane!

This reminds me a little bit of OBD-II with cars. Part of the settings are public and standard, part of it is private!

Philippe Hanset




On Jan 30, 2013, at 7:41 AM, "Osborne, Bruce W" <bosborne@LIBERTY.EDU>
 wrote:

Daniel,
 
There are too many custom features and proprietary closed protocols  to permit AP to controller interoperability.
 
For multi-vendor wireless monitoring & management, the Airwave AWMS (AMP) product has excelled for many years. Even though the product is now owned by Aruba Networks, Airwave has retained its multi-vendor features.
 
Bruce Osborne
Liberty University
 
From: Daniel Eklund [mailto:eklund@UMICH.EDU
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: New Cisco Wireless Gear - 5760WLC & Cat3850
 
As I've said recently, I really wish that there was a standard that all APs would use and all controllers would use so that they could all talk together.  I know this is probably unlikely to happen, but we have interoperable wired networks and I just wish the same for the wireless side.  Maybe a universal controller is more realistic, something that understands how to talk to all types of APs.
 
--
Daniel Eklund
Network Planning Manager
ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers
University of Michigan
734.763.6389

 

Yes, this is pretty much what I'm thinking Philippe.  All devices are getting smarter as time goes on, but APs have gotten dumber (in some ways).  Perhaps Cisco will do something good with the acquisition of Meraki in this regard. 

--
Daniel Eklund
Network Planning Manager
ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers
University of Michigan
734.763.6389


It is highly unlikely that this will ever come to pass. Sure, you may get to the point where you could get very basic AP functionality cross-vendor, but there are so many vendor-specific custom features requiring support in both the AP and controller e.g. Cisco's clean air, that I doubt vendor A will spend time to reverse-engineer and support vendor B's technology. There is simply no money to be made from doing so and it's unlikely to result in a better customer experience. Jeff >>> Daniel Eklund 01/30/13 7:46 AM >>> Yes, this is pretty much what I'm thinking Philippe. All devices are getting smarter as time goes on, but APs have gotten dumber (in some ways). Perhaps Cisco will do something good with the acquisition of Meraki in this regard. -- Daniel Eklund Network Planning Manager ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers University of Michigan 734.763.6389

I’m cynical.

 

SIP, LWAPP, and CAPWAP at different times were all supposed to bring interoperability, depending on who you talked with. They’ll find a way to hose up open flow, with per vendor special sauce.

 

Grrrr.

 

A Curmudgeon in Syracuse

 

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Daniel Eklund
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:46 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Cisco Wireless Gear - 5760WLC & Cat3850

 

Yes, this is pretty much what I'm thinking Philippe.  All devices are getting smarter as time goes on, but APs have gotten dumber (in some ways).  Perhaps Cisco will do something good with the acquisition of Meraki in this regard. 

 

--

Daniel Eklund

Network Planning Manager

ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers

University of Michigan

734.763.6389

 

Yes, I know I'm a starry eyed dreamer, but if we don't talk about this it may never happen.  I, for one, am not looking forward to the day when we have to somehow transition from 12,000 access points of one vendor to 12,000 from another and make the transition as seamless as possible.

--
Daniel Eklund
Network Planning Manager
ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers
University of Michigan
734.763.6389


Message from mark.duling@biola.edu

The question isn't whether one is cynical, but what one is cynical about and why.  The expression "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from" was a pretty cynical statement of the benefits of having them.

The only standards that work well are so brutally simple that I sometimes wonder if some of these standards aren't as much curse as blessing.  RADIUS?  And the follow-on replacements often just perpetuate the problems.  It's enough to make one cynical.  People think technology changes happen quickly.  If only.






Daniel,

 

There are too many custom features and proprietary closed protocols  to permit AP to controller interoperability.

 

For multi-vendor wireless monitoring & management, the Airwave AWMS (AMP) product has excelled for many years. Even though the product is now owned by Aruba Networks, Airwave has retained its multi-vendor features.

 

Bruce Osborne

Liberty University

 

From: Daniel Eklund [mailto:eklund@UMICH.EDU]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: New Cisco Wireless Gear - 5760WLC & Cat3850

 

As I've said recently, I really wish that there was a standard that all APs would use and all controllers would use so that they could all talk together.  I know this is probably unlikely to happen, but we have interoperable wired networks and I just wish the same for the wireless side.  Maybe a universal controller is more realistic, something that understands how to talk to all types of APs.

 

--

Daniel Eklund

Network Planning Manager

ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers

University of Michigan

734.763.6389

 

Just brainstorming here...

CAPWAP tried to accomplish some standardization for Controller/AP communication, but I haven't seen 
many CAPWAP compatible devices!

This said, if you follow what's happening with OpenFlow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenFlow) on switches,
and since switches and wireless equipment seem to progressively integrate, we could make a leap and think
that eventually there will be a common set of features that will be standardized for wireless as well.

OpenFlow accomplishes on switches what we have been doing with wireless for a few years:
Separation of control plane and data plane!

This reminds me a little bit of OBD-II with cars. Part of the settings are public and standard, part of it is private!

Philippe Hanset




On Jan 30, 2013, at 7:41 AM, "Osborne, Bruce W" <bosborne@LIBERTY.EDU>
 wrote:

Daniel,
 
There are too many custom features and proprietary closed protocols  to permit AP to controller interoperability.
 
For multi-vendor wireless monitoring & management, the Airwave AWMS (AMP) product has excelled for many years. Even though the product is now owned by Aruba Networks, Airwave has retained its multi-vendor features.
 
Bruce Osborne
Liberty University
 
From: Daniel Eklund [mailto:eklund@UMICH.EDU
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: New Cisco Wireless Gear - 5760WLC & Cat3850
 
As I've said recently, I really wish that there was a standard that all APs would use and all controllers would use so that they could all talk together.  I know this is probably unlikely to happen, but we have interoperable wired networks and I just wish the same for the wireless side.  Maybe a universal controller is more realistic, something that understands how to talk to all types of APs.
 
--
Daniel Eklund
Network Planning Manager
ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers
University of Michigan
734.763.6389

 

Yes, this is pretty much what I'm thinking Philippe.  All devices are getting smarter as time goes on, but APs have gotten dumber (in some ways).  Perhaps Cisco will do something good with the acquisition of Meraki in this regard. 

--
Daniel Eklund
Network Planning Manager
ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers
University of Michigan
734.763.6389


It is highly unlikely that this will ever come to pass. Sure, you may get to the point where you could get very basic AP functionality cross-vendor, but there are so many vendor-specific custom features requiring support in both the AP and controller e.g. Cisco's clean air, that I doubt vendor A will spend time to reverse-engineer and support vendor B's technology. There is simply no money to be made from doing so and it's unlikely to result in a better customer experience. Jeff >>> Daniel Eklund 01/30/13 7:46 AM >>> Yes, this is pretty much what I'm thinking Philippe. All devices are getting smarter as time goes on, but APs have gotten dumber (in some ways). Perhaps Cisco will do something good with the acquisition of Meraki in this regard. -- Daniel Eklund Network Planning Manager ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers University of Michigan 734.763.6389

I’m cynical.

 

SIP, LWAPP, and CAPWAP at different times were all supposed to bring interoperability, depending on who you talked with. They’ll find a way to hose up open flow, with per vendor special sauce.

 

Grrrr.

 

A Curmudgeon in Syracuse

 

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Daniel Eklund
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:46 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Cisco Wireless Gear - 5760WLC & Cat3850

 

Yes, this is pretty much what I'm thinking Philippe.  All devices are getting smarter as time goes on, but APs have gotten dumber (in some ways).  Perhaps Cisco will do something good with the acquisition of Meraki in this regard. 

 

--

Daniel Eklund

Network Planning Manager

ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers

University of Michigan

734.763.6389

 

Yes, I know I'm a starry eyed dreamer, but if we don't talk about this it may never happen.  I, for one, am not looking forward to the day when we have to somehow transition from 12,000 access points of one vendor to 12,000 from another and make the transition as seamless as possible.

--
Daniel Eklund
Network Planning Manager
ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers
University of Michigan
734.763.6389


Message from mark.duling@biola.edu

The question isn't whether one is cynical, but what one is cynical about and why.  The expression "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from" was a pretty cynical statement of the benefits of having them.

The only standards that work well are so brutally simple that I sometimes wonder if some of these standards aren't as much curse as blessing.  RADIUS?  And the follow-on replacements often just perpetuate the problems.  It's enough to make one cynical.  People think technology changes happen quickly.  If only.






Daniel,

 

There are too many custom features and proprietary closed protocols  to permit AP to controller interoperability.

 

For multi-vendor wireless monitoring & management, the Airwave AWMS (AMP) product has excelled for many years. Even though the product is now owned by Aruba Networks, Airwave has retained its multi-vendor features.

 

Bruce Osborne

Liberty University

 

From: Daniel Eklund [mailto:eklund@UMICH.EDU]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: New Cisco Wireless Gear - 5760WLC & Cat3850

 

As I've said recently, I really wish that there was a standard that all APs would use and all controllers would use so that they could all talk together.  I know this is probably unlikely to happen, but we have interoperable wired networks and I just wish the same for the wireless side.  Maybe a universal controller is more realistic, something that understands how to talk to all types of APs.

 

--

Daniel Eklund

Network Planning Manager

ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers

University of Michigan

734.763.6389

 

Just brainstorming here...

CAPWAP tried to accomplish some standardization for Controller/AP communication, but I haven't seen 
many CAPWAP compatible devices!

This said, if you follow what's happening with OpenFlow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenFlow) on switches,
and since switches and wireless equipment seem to progressively integrate, we could make a leap and think
that eventually there will be a common set of features that will be standardized for wireless as well.

OpenFlow accomplishes on switches what we have been doing with wireless for a few years:
Separation of control plane and data plane!

This reminds me a little bit of OBD-II with cars. Part of the settings are public and standard, part of it is private!

Philippe Hanset




On Jan 30, 2013, at 7:41 AM, "Osborne, Bruce W" <bosborne@LIBERTY.EDU>
 wrote:

Daniel,
 
There are too many custom features and proprietary closed protocols  to permit AP to controller interoperability.
 
For multi-vendor wireless monitoring & management, the Airwave AWMS (AMP) product has excelled for many years. Even though the product is now owned by Aruba Networks, Airwave has retained its multi-vendor features.
 
Bruce Osborne
Liberty University
 
From: Daniel Eklund [mailto:eklund@UMICH.EDU
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: New Cisco Wireless Gear - 5760WLC & Cat3850
 
As I've said recently, I really wish that there was a standard that all APs would use and all controllers would use so that they could all talk together.  I know this is probably unlikely to happen, but we have interoperable wired networks and I just wish the same for the wireless side.  Maybe a universal controller is more realistic, something that understands how to talk to all types of APs.
 
--
Daniel Eklund
Network Planning Manager
ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers
University of Michigan
734.763.6389

 

Yes, this is pretty much what I'm thinking Philippe.  All devices are getting smarter as time goes on, but APs have gotten dumber (in some ways).  Perhaps Cisco will do something good with the acquisition of Meraki in this regard. 

--
Daniel Eklund
Network Planning Manager
ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers
University of Michigan
734.763.6389


It is highly unlikely that this will ever come to pass. Sure, you may get to the point where you could get very basic AP functionality cross-vendor, but there are so many vendor-specific custom features requiring support in both the AP and controller e.g. Cisco's clean air, that I doubt vendor A will spend time to reverse-engineer and support vendor B's technology. There is simply no money to be made from doing so and it's unlikely to result in a better customer experience. Jeff >>> Daniel Eklund 01/30/13 7:46 AM >>> Yes, this is pretty much what I'm thinking Philippe. All devices are getting smarter as time goes on, but APs have gotten dumber (in some ways). Perhaps Cisco will do something good with the acquisition of Meraki in this regard. -- Daniel Eklund Network Planning Manager ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers University of Michigan 734.763.6389

I’m cynical.

 

SIP, LWAPP, and CAPWAP at different times were all supposed to bring interoperability, depending on who you talked with. They’ll find a way to hose up open flow, with per vendor special sauce.

 

Grrrr.

 

A Curmudgeon in Syracuse

 

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Daniel Eklund
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:46 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Cisco Wireless Gear - 5760WLC & Cat3850

 

Yes, this is pretty much what I'm thinking Philippe.  All devices are getting smarter as time goes on, but APs have gotten dumber (in some ways).  Perhaps Cisco will do something good with the acquisition of Meraki in this regard. 

 

--

Daniel Eklund

Network Planning Manager

ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers

University of Michigan

734.763.6389

 

Yes, I know I'm a starry eyed dreamer, but if we don't talk about this it may never happen.  I, for one, am not looking forward to the day when we have to somehow transition from 12,000 access points of one vendor to 12,000 from another and make the transition as seamless as possible.

--
Daniel Eklund
Network Planning Manager
ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers
University of Michigan
734.763.6389


Message from mark.duling@biola.edu

The question isn't whether one is cynical, but what one is cynical about and why.  The expression "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from" was a pretty cynical statement of the benefits of having them.

The only standards that work well are so brutally simple that I sometimes wonder if some of these standards aren't as much curse as blessing.  RADIUS?  And the follow-on replacements often just perpetuate the problems.  It's enough to make one cynical.  People think technology changes happen quickly.  If only.






Daniel,

 

There are too many custom features and proprietary closed protocols  to permit AP to controller interoperability.

 

For multi-vendor wireless monitoring & management, the Airwave AWMS (AMP) product has excelled for many years. Even though the product is now owned by Aruba Networks, Airwave has retained its multi-vendor features.

 

Bruce Osborne

Liberty University

 

From: Daniel Eklund [mailto:eklund@UMICH.EDU]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: New Cisco Wireless Gear - 5760WLC & Cat3850

 

As I've said recently, I really wish that there was a standard that all APs would use and all controllers would use so that they could all talk together.  I know this is probably unlikely to happen, but we have interoperable wired networks and I just wish the same for the wireless side.  Maybe a universal controller is more realistic, something that understands how to talk to all types of APs.

 

--

Daniel Eklund

Network Planning Manager

ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers

University of Michigan

734.763.6389

 

Just brainstorming here...

CAPWAP tried to accomplish some standardization for Controller/AP communication, but I haven't seen 
many CAPWAP compatible devices!

This said, if you follow what's happening with OpenFlow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenFlow) on switches,
and since switches and wireless equipment seem to progressively integrate, we could make a leap and think
that eventually there will be a common set of features that will be standardized for wireless as well.

OpenFlow accomplishes on switches what we have been doing with wireless for a few years:
Separation of control plane and data plane!

This reminds me a little bit of OBD-II with cars. Part of the settings are public and standard, part of it is private!

Philippe Hanset




On Jan 30, 2013, at 7:41 AM, "Osborne, Bruce W" <bosborne@LIBERTY.EDU>
 wrote:

Daniel,
 
There are too many custom features and proprietary closed protocols  to permit AP to controller interoperability.
 
For multi-vendor wireless monitoring & management, the Airwave AWMS (AMP) product has excelled for many years. Even though the product is now owned by Aruba Networks, Airwave has retained its multi-vendor features.
 
Bruce Osborne
Liberty University
 
From: Daniel Eklund [mailto:eklund@UMICH.EDU
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: New Cisco Wireless Gear - 5760WLC & Cat3850
 
As I've said recently, I really wish that there was a standard that all APs would use and all controllers would use so that they could all talk together.  I know this is probably unlikely to happen, but we have interoperable wired networks and I just wish the same for the wireless side.  Maybe a universal controller is more realistic, something that understands how to talk to all types of APs.
 
--
Daniel Eklund
Network Planning Manager
ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers
University of Michigan
734.763.6389

 

Yes, this is pretty much what I'm thinking Philippe.  All devices are getting smarter as time goes on, but APs have gotten dumber (in some ways).  Perhaps Cisco will do something good with the acquisition of Meraki in this regard. 

--
Daniel Eklund
Network Planning Manager
ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers
University of Michigan
734.763.6389


It is highly unlikely that this will ever come to pass. Sure, you may get to the point where you could get very basic AP functionality cross-vendor, but there are so many vendor-specific custom features requiring support in both the AP and controller e.g. Cisco's clean air, that I doubt vendor A will spend time to reverse-engineer and support vendor B's technology. There is simply no money to be made from doing so and it's unlikely to result in a better customer experience. Jeff >>> Daniel Eklund 01/30/13 7:46 AM >>> Yes, this is pretty much what I'm thinking Philippe. All devices are getting smarter as time goes on, but APs have gotten dumber (in some ways). Perhaps Cisco will do something good with the acquisition of Meraki in this regard. -- Daniel Eklund Network Planning Manager ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers University of Michigan 734.763.6389

I’m cynical.

 

SIP, LWAPP, and CAPWAP at different times were all supposed to bring interoperability, depending on who you talked with. They’ll find a way to hose up open flow, with per vendor special sauce.

 

Grrrr.

 

A Curmudgeon in Syracuse

 

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Daniel Eklund
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:46 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Cisco Wireless Gear - 5760WLC & Cat3850

 

Yes, this is pretty much what I'm thinking Philippe.  All devices are getting smarter as time goes on, but APs have gotten dumber (in some ways).  Perhaps Cisco will do something good with the acquisition of Meraki in this regard. 

 

--

Daniel Eklund

Network Planning Manager

ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers

University of Michigan

734.763.6389

 

Yes, I know I'm a starry eyed dreamer, but if we don't talk about this it may never happen.  I, for one, am not looking forward to the day when we have to somehow transition from 12,000 access points of one vendor to 12,000 from another and make the transition as seamless as possible.

--
Daniel Eklund
Network Planning Manager
ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers
University of Michigan
734.763.6389


Message from mark.duling@biola.edu

The question isn't whether one is cynical, but what one is cynical about and why.  The expression "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from" was a pretty cynical statement of the benefits of having them.

The only standards that work well are so brutally simple that I sometimes wonder if some of these standards aren't as much curse as blessing.  RADIUS?  And the follow-on replacements often just perpetuate the problems.  It's enough to make one cynical.  People think technology changes happen quickly.  If only.






Just brainstorming here...

CAPWAP tried to accomplish some standardization for Controller/AP communication, but I haven't seen 
many CAPWAP compatible devices!

This said, if you follow what's happening with OpenFlow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenFlow) on switches,
and since switches and wireless equipment seem to progressively integrate, we could make a leap and think
that eventually there will be a common set of features that will be standardized for wireless as well.

OpenFlow accomplishes on switches what we have been doing with wireless for a few years:
Separation of control plane and data plane!

This reminds me a little bit of OBD-II with cars. Part of the settings are public and standard, part of it is private!

Philippe Hanset




On Jan 30, 2013, at 7:41 AM, "Osborne, Bruce W" <bosborne@LIBERTY.EDU>
 wrote:

Daniel,
 
There are too many custom features and proprietary closed protocols  to permit AP to controller interoperability.
 
For multi-vendor wireless monitoring & management, the Airwave AWMS (AMP) product has excelled for many years. Even though the product is now owned by Aruba Networks, Airwave has retained its multi-vendor features.
 
Bruce Osborne
Liberty University
 
From: Daniel Eklund [mailto:eklund@UMICH.EDU
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: New Cisco Wireless Gear - 5760WLC & Cat3850
 
As I've said recently, I really wish that there was a standard that all APs would use and all controllers would use so that they could all talk together.  I know this is probably unlikely to happen, but we have interoperable wired networks and I just wish the same for the wireless side.  Maybe a universal controller is more realistic, something that understands how to talk to all types of APs.
 
--
Daniel Eklund
Network Planning Manager
ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers
University of Michigan
734.763.6389

 

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