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I have heard tangentially that 7.5 helps the cause of supporting AppleTVs  better than last couple of versions (no discredit to Cisco for trying to solve Apple’s shortcomings). Is there anyone running 7.5 on a big, prod WLAN that can say they are having an acceptable, low-support/low-confusion-for-users experience with lots of Apple Bonjour-dependent devices in use? Is PI helping with this in any way?
 
Just trying to get a read before we go to 7.5.
 
(I am aware of Bonjour gateways and what other vendors are doing, hoping to keep answers limited to Cisco 7.5)
 
Thanks very much-
 
Lee Badman
 
********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Comments

Bonjour first comes to the party with 7.4.  I had a long talk with the Cisco people (many hours over several days inside a tac case regarding bonjour and print servers) about the differences between 7.4 and 7.5 with regard to Bonjour.  7.5 introduces a "zone" concept, where only certain Bonjour sources are repeated to certain place.  The core functionality is the same, though, between 7.4 and 7.5.  If you go to 7.5, you can't go to prime 2, you'll need to wait for prime 2.1.

Now, all that said, we're running 7.4.110.0, with almost 900 APs on 7 controllers, and Bonjour is working.  Yep. I wrote that.  Apple tvs and printers "just show up."  Users are happy.  Yep.  I wrote that, too.

Prime isn't involved at all in Bounjour, not in the very least. 

Feel free to shoot questions over.

-Rick


On 10/10/2013 10:54 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
I have heard tangentially that 7.5 helps the cause of supporting AppleTVs  better than last couple of versions (no discredit to Cisco for trying to solve Apple’s shortcomings). Is there anyone running 7.5 on a big, prod WLAN that can say they are having an acceptable, low-support/low-confusion-for-users experience with lots of Apple Bonjour-dependent devices in use? Is PI helping with this in any way?
 
Just trying to get a read before we go to 7.5.
 
(I am aware of Bonjour gateways and what other vendors are doing, hoping to keep answers limited to Cisco 7.5)
 
Thanks very much-
 
Lee Badman
 
********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.



-- Rick Coloccia, Jr. Network Manager State University of NY College at Geneseo 1 College Circle, 119 South Hall Geneseo, NY 14454 V: 585-245-5577 F: 585-245-5579 ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Hi  Rick-

 

Thanks for the response.

 

I guess I knew Prime wasn’t involved in Bonjour per se- I should have asked the question with more clarity. Wondering if PI was helping in any way with the management of zones, etc, as given our size we could have lots of them.

 

If you don’t mind sharing (could do a call if you’d rather), what is your typical “bring a Bonjour zone to life scenario”? Someone says they want to use AirPlay or AppleTV where you don’t yet have a zone, and then…? Are you seeing cases where it’s being relied on for classroom use, has a hiccup, and becomes an emergency response because instruction is disrupted? And which version of Cisco’s cookbook are you using- the one with Broadcast enabled on the WLAN or the one with Unicast?

 

 

Again, Thank you.

 

 

-Lee

 

 

I am also running 7.5, utilizing the mDNS AP feature. This allows the devices (AppleTV's) to be plugged into a wired connection. Much less channel util. when screen-sharing is only going over Wireless in one direction. It works well. The simple guide is here:

You can designate an mDNS ap at the distribution layer, or choose an ap in ea. building, if your need crosses distribution routers.

Mike

-----The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> wrote: -----

To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU

I’m still seeing a lot of potential drawbacks to this, despite Cisco going above and beyond to accommodate Apple’s shame. I also have to wonder- is anyone willingly doing what we all know is also undesirable- popping up one-off topologies for isolated AppleTV and AirPrint (and Chromecast for that matter), outside of the controller environment, and just living with the limits and interference?

 

Fess up now, you’re among friends. J

 

-Lee

 

I am working with Apple and our bookstore to set up a an Airport specifically to support the Tune&Play demo station but that's just for the immediate area and not for general use.
-Scott



Same same here….

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Allen
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 3:21 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] For those of you on Cisco code 7.5, supporting Bonjour, etc...

 

I am working with Apple and our bookstore to set up a an Airport specifically to support the Tune&Play demo station but that's just for the immediate area and not for general use.

-Scott

 

 

And here, although our Bookstore folks are using a Mac Mini with Internet Sharing enabled.  The Mac Mini is running the Tune&Play software.

-dan


Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbrisson@uvm.edu On 10/10/13 3:29 PM, Lee H Badman wrote:

Same same here….

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Allen
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 3:21 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] For those of you on Cisco code 7.5, supporting Bonjour, etc...

 

I am working with Apple and our bookstore to set up a an Airport specifically to support the Tune&Play demo station but that's just for the immediate area and not for general use.

-Scott

 

 

Message from mark.duling@biola.edu

>> ... Cisco going above and beyond to accommodate Apple’s shame. Cisco is overjoyed at the opportunity to provide themselves a competitive advantage. Users are overjoyed at the capability. I suppose most IT workers are happy to have the job security that solving visible user-centric problems like this provides. Lee, if I didn't know better I'd think you've suddenly lost faith in multi-vendor solutions. :)
Message from iam@st-andrews.ac.uk

Ahh, I'm sure multivendor solutions are great so long as Apple aren't involved in them anywhere, as servers or clients ;) -- ian -----Original Message----- From: Mark Duling Sent: 10-10-2013, 22:17 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] For those of you on Cisco code 7.5, supporting Bonjour, etc... >> ... Cisco going above and beyond to accommodate Apple’s shame. Cisco is overjoyed at the opportunity to provide themselves a competitive advantage. Users are overjoyed at the capability. I suppose most IT workers are happy to have the job security that solving visible user-centric problems like this provides. Lee, if I didn't know better I'd think you've suddenly lost faith in multi-vendor solutions. :)
Message from mark.duling@biola.edu

That's a good start to a joke. "How many IT workers does it take to avoid the half billion Apple devices that have been sold? ... Only as many as want to avoid being employed". I'll be here all week.
How many Bonjour devices does it take to screw in a light bulb? Just one... they screw themselves :) (Not here all week, just took the "open mike" opportunity) Jeff On 10/10/2013 5:37 PM, Mark Duling wrote: > That's a good start to a joke. "How many IT workers does it take to > avoid the half billion Apple devices that have been sold? ... Only as > many as want to avoid being employed". > > I'll be here all week. > >
If you "bridge" wireless to wired, we have issues as most of our buildings are routed (distributed model) and it breaks down the mobility/roaming flexibility we get by backhauling our APs to central controllers and using common network infrastructure across campus.

There are pros and cons to each, but our "mobility" is a selling point, particularly as we expand to outdoor coverage.  We have at least one documented survey response complaining about "When I go from my dorm room to class in the morning, my Pandora keeps interrupting flipping from WiFi to 3G/4G..."

Geez...  and it took us years to get WiFi in the residence halls...

Jeff

On 10/10/2013 3:29 PM, Lee H Badman wrote:

Same same here….

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Allen
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 3:21 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] For those of you on Cisco code 7.5, supporting Bonjour, etc...

 

I am working with Apple and our bookstore to set up a an Airport specifically to support the Tune&Play demo station but that's just for the immediate area and not for general use.

-Scott

 

 

How is this a competitive advantage for Cisco? Have you never heard of Aruba's AirGroup? The features sound very similar. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer IT Network Services  (434) 592-4229   Liberty University  |  Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -----Original Message----- From: Mark Duling [mailto:mark.duling@BIOLA.EDU] Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 5:17 PM Subject: Re: For those of you on Cisco code 7.5, supporting Bonjour, etc... >> ... Cisco going above and beyond to accommodate Apple's shame. Cisco is overjoyed at the opportunity to provide themselves a competitive advantage. Users are overjoyed at the capability. I suppose most IT workers are happy to have the job security that solving visible user-centric problems like this provides. Lee, if I didn't know better I'd think you've suddenly lost faith in multi-vendor solutions. :)
Message from mark.duling@biola.edu

Yes I've heard of Aruba's solution. But I said Cisco has an "opportunity" to provide a competitive advantage, as do their competitors such as Aruba. An opportunity to provide a competitive advantage doesn't equal a competitive advantage. That depends on performance or at least perceived performance. It would have been more clear if I'd said "Cisco and others", but Cisco was the context of the discussion at the time. Aruba and others have the same opportunity as Cisco, and I assume are just as happy at the opportunity to distinguish themselves with features that users are asking for. That's all I meant. How the various vendors stack up on that on this feature I really don't know. It may be that it changes little competitively in the end. But I think more users using wireless for more things is a boon for network vendors generally, and I'd be pretty surprised if they actually resented Apple's not addressing the enterprise needs to have this feature directly. If it seems like I'm treating this as a victimless crime, I am because I can't identify anyone actually harmed. I'd be very surprised if any end users would vote to wait to use AirPlay until enterprise IT managers were satisfied with it. There are unethical examples where this form of thing had real victims. I think of a few years back with the Wintel platform and virus checkers, where it wasn't an additional feature in play but the lack of one that was costly and dangerous for the end user. This went on for many years. There were those that complained, but I think most IT managers were entirely happy to participate in exploiting end-users to their own benefit.
Message from john.chanowski@utoledo.edu

Lee,

We have gone ahead and done what you hinted at and made a pact with the devil. We are an Aruba shop but for various reasons we were not in a position to proceed with their enterprise solution this term. When we were approached by various academic departments about using Apple TVs in class and conference rooms, we sat down and negotiated the following deal with them. We would allow them to bring in their own access point, any one they chose, connect it to our network, and support Apple TVs as long as the following conditions were met: 1)we would offer them guidance, but they would be responsible for making it work, and we would get no help desk calls about it; 2)their access point could ONLY operate at 5GHz; 3)they would give us the mac addresses of all access points they were using so we could HUNT THEM DOWN if things got out of hand; 4)this arrangement would be allowed in a limited number of locations only, this was not an endorsement of a general deployment . This coexistence has worked out better than I expected so far. We have had no incidents with their equipment and they are happy with how everything has worked out so far. The only part of this agreement that has somewhat gone awry is number 4. Some enterprising soul managed to figure a way to mount the AP, the Apple TV, and all associated cables and power cords inside a small suitcase that could be carried around from classroom to classroom, thus potentially increasing the number of locations where these things might appear. We also told them that we reserved the right to take them off the network without notice if we suspected that their equipment was causing issues for us. We also made it clear that we would be proceeding with an enterprise solution for Apple TVs and that, when that solution was ready, these one-off arrangements would cease. As you said, this is undesirable but so far has caused no harm, has actually benefitted some, and I’m only confessing to it because I’m among friends.

 

Great information, and perspective. Thanks, John!

 

Lee,
Yes.

I've been working on a Bonjour related problem which looks like a match to CSCty84682.  

Under a large 7.4.110 FlexConnect/local-switching, wireless clients were sometimes seeing complete loss of incoming mDNS packets although other connectivity was fine.  I found if I added a 2nd SSID to the WLAN the issue would clear.  The issue was not presenting for sites homed to my 7.5.102 controller.

There are many ATVs being used in this deployment and their sporadic loss causing grief at affected sites.

I was holding off upgrading Prime from 1.3 as I decided between 7.4/7.5, but I'll be upgrading this one to 7.5 due to this.  
On a side note, 7.5 also more easily handles FlexC group WLAN mapping.


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