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We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement.  Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space?  For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area?  



Jake Barros  |  Network Administrator  |  Office of Information Technology
Grace College and Seminary  |  Winona Lake, IN  |  574.372.5100 x6178
********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Comments

The cutoff for Cisco wireless phones in 5Ghz is -67 per their design guide for voice and I use closer to -70 in 2.4 Ghz for data-only deployments. These are all low-density deployments however, so YMMV for dorms. Nathan Hay Network Engineer | NOC WinWholesale Inc. 888-225-5947 From: "Barros, Jacob" To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU, Date: 12/11/2013 04:27 PM Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Sent by: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement.  Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space?  For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros  |  Network Administrator  |  Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary  |  Winona Lake, IN  |  574.372.5100 x6178 ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ********************************************************************************************* This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all copies. All unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any error in transmission. ********************************************************************************************* ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
As we remodel newer dorms moving forward, we put a network drop above the ceiling tile for every other room and then evaluate as needed for placement. We moved from about 4 to 5 access points per dorm building for legacy deployments over to about 20 in newer construction. -67 to -70 dBi is a good threshold as stated. Our biggest hurdle in the past was the lack of existing infrastructure in old buildings, so we're limited to that in certain spaces that haven't undergone construction. Joe Stewart Network Specialist Claremont McKenna College
Message from hugh.flemington@queensu.ca

We're going down the road to wireless coverage everywhere and are using minimum -65 as our design intent in both 2.4 and 5 Ghz. It's more of a vision right now but there's been a fair amount of new construction recently and we've tried to keep to that plan. We've got two new residences starting construction now (5 floors 272 students, 9 floors 272 students) and they'll be the first with the full coverage. Our wireless coverage in public and classroom space has been pretty good but was based on the laptop user sitting in one location. We're challenged now by the lower power handheld devices and the movement so we're drafting plans to revisit and retrofit building by building. Hugh Hugh Flemington Queen's University Kingston Canada
Remember that while a minimum RSSI is still important; with as dense as things have gotten, the bigger challenge these days is keeping up with density while keeping ACI and CCI to a minimum. Having good a good RSSI is useless if you've got four dozen clients all vying for a time slice to get their frames through.

-Luke


Hello Jake,

 

Here are our Best Practices:

 

University of Colorado
Best Practices Guide for Wireless Design

The following is a list of the Best Practices used for creating Wireless Network Designs for the Boulder Campus of the University of Colorado. This design includes optimal coverage cells, power settings and channel configuration for the access points:
 
·       All designs are based upon 95% coverage within the coverage areas for an 802.11n 5GHz design @ - 65dBm or better.
·       Coverage for 802.11n 2.4 GHz with be @ -67dBm or better
·       Channel Plan for the 2.4 GHz Plan will only use channels 1, 6, & 11.

·       Channel Plan for the 5 GHz Plan will use channels 36+, 44+, 52+, 60+, 149+, & 157+. (UNII-2 Extended optional)

·       Channel Plan for the 5 GHz Plan will be based upon 40 GHz Channel Bonding

·       User Capacity Requirements of 1 client device per seat in the lecture halls.

·       User Capacity Requirements of 3 client devices per bedroom in the residence halls.

·       Access Points will be designed for 40 connections per AP to provide optimal experiences for typical web browsing and email applications.

·       Make and Model of Client Requested APs:

o   Cisco Aironet 3500 Series Access Point (AIR-CAP3502I-x-K9)

o   Cisco Aironet 3600 Series Access Points

·       Outdoor units will be installed to in climate and weather protected boxes.

  • Build a WLAN design to incorporate wall attenuation factors based upon on site measurements for absorption (when provided) and industry standards for reflection of the identified building materials
  • The entire wireless network design will be constructed with uniform transmit power for all Access Points (except in the Lecture Halls where low power APs will be deployed as required for density issues).
  • Stairwells, storage areas and elevators do not require coverage.

 

 

Hi all,

What device or test equipment is being used for the RSSI value? If we see -65dBm on a Fluke AirCheck, we’re lucky to get -72dBm on an Intel 5100 in an HP laptop, as an example.  We’d like to pick a specific device, eg, an iPad and create standard measurements on such a device so the customer is empowered to report a fault based on data they have available.

Tristan

 




On 12 Dec 2013, at 8:27 am, Barros, Jacob <jkbarros@GRACE.EDU> wrote:

We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement.  Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space?  For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area?  



Jake Barros  |  Network Administrator  |  Office of Information Technology
Grace College and Seminary  |  Winona Lake, IN  |  574.372.5100 x6178
********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Max and Hugh,

So what does a -65dBM standard come out terms of AP per sq. footage?

O'Reilly 802.11ac guide lists -67dbm for 1 AP per 2,000 sq. ft. (assuming greenfield and approximations, of course).

Appreciated,


Kitri Waterman

--
Network Engineer (Wireless)
Information Services
University of Oregon





On 12/11/13 2:13 PM, Max Lawrence Lopez wrote:

Hello Jake,

 

Here are our Best Practices:

 

University of Colorado
Best Practices Guide for Wireless Design

The following is a list of the Best Practices used for creating Wireless Network Designs for the Boulder Campus of the University of Colorado. This design includes optimal coverage cells, power settings and channel configuration for the access points:
 
·       All designs are based upon 95% coverage within the coverage areas for an 802.11n 5GHz design @ - 65dBm or better.
·       Coverage for 802.11n 2.4 GHz with be @ -67dBm or better
·       Channel Plan for the 2.4 GHz Plan will only use channels 1, 6, & 11.

·       Channel Plan for the 5 GHz Plan will use channels 36+, 44+, 52+, 60+, 149+, & 157+. (UNII-2 Extended optional)

·       Channel Plan for the 5 GHz Plan will be based upon 40 GHz Channel Bonding

·       User Capacity Requirements of 1 client device per seat in the lecture halls.

·       User Capacity Requirements of 3 client devices per bedroom in the residence halls.

·       Access Points will be designed for 40 connections per AP to provide optimal experiences for typical web browsing and email applications.

·       Make and Model of Client Requested APs:

o   Cisco Aironet 3500 Series Access Point (AIR-CAP3502I-x-K9)

o   Cisco Aironet 3600 Series Access Points

·       Outdoor units will be installed to in climate and weather protected boxes.

  • Build a WLAN design to incorporate wall attenuation factors based upon on site measurements for absorption (when provided) and industry standards for reflection of the identified building materials
  • The entire wireless network design will be constructed with uniform transmit power for all Access Points (except in the Lecture Halls where low power APs will be deployed as required for density issues).
  • Stairwells, storage areas and elevators do not require coverage.

 

 

We have had to begin installing more APs (we have only 30 APs total). I have attributed this to the fact that newer Apple devices will hang onto a bad 5 Ghz connection over a solid 2.4 Ghz, the introduction of lower powered devices (Apple TVs for example), and metal studs in our newer dorms. It seems keeping my users on 5 Ghz is far more difficult than 2.4 Ghz was. Does the above sound correct? Bob Williamson Network Administrator Annie Wright Schools | 827 N Tacoma Ave, Tacoma, WA 98403 | www.aw.org D: 253.272.2216 | F: 253.572.3616 | Bob_Williamson@aw.org Mission: Annie Wright's strong community cultivates individual learners to become well-educated, creative, and responsible citizens for a global society. Find Annie Wright Schools on Facebook Follow our Head of Schools on Twitter @AWShead "Be green; keep it on the screen." ~ AWS Green Team
Thanks to all for your feedback.   Max, do you publish these best practices or is it internal?



Jake Barros  |  Network Administrator  |  Office of Information Technology
Grace College and Seminary  |  Winona Lake, IN  |  574.372.5100 x6178


Hello Kitri,

 

-65dBM does not necessarily equate to sq. footage (especially with 802.11n). Of course RF propagation is greatly influenced by construction and building materials. It is necessary to either perform a Site Survey or have some sort of Predictive RF modeling done to identify RSSI boundaries…

 

If you have any questions on our approach please don’t hesitate to contact me.

 

Max Lopez 
Senior Staff Authority for Wireless

Office of Information Technology
University of Colorado
3645 Marine St. Boulder, CO 80309
Direct:  303.492.2193
Skype:  mrmax05

max.lopez@colorado.edu

www.colorado.edu
www.linkedin.com/in/maxlopez
www.twitter.com/mrmaxlopez

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Jacob,

 

This is not published yet as we are looking to update the wireless section of our website.
We have however redesigned 85% of our campus for 802.11ac (5GHz). We have a 3,000+ AP deployment and counting.

 

If you have any questions regarding our practices please don’t hesitate to contact me.

Thanks,

Max Lopez 
Senior Staff Authority for Wireless

Office of Information Technology
University of Colorado
3645 Marine St. Boulder, CO 80309
Direct:  303.492.2193
Skype:  mrmax05

max.lopez@colorado.edu

www.colorado.edu
www.linkedin.com/in/maxlopez
www.twitter.com/mrmaxlopez

 

 

 

 

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Barros, Jacob
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:32 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning

 

Thanks to all for your feedback.   Max, do you publish these best practices or is it internal?

 


 

Jake Barros  |  Network Administrator  |  Office of Information Technology

Grace College and Seminary  |  Winona Lake, IN  |  574.372.5100 x6178

 

Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point.  We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has.   What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone.

We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet.  But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI.  I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values.

Curious what folks think of that strategy.  Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking.  I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic.

Thanks,
-dan

Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbrisson@uvm.edu
Thanks Max.

Yes, I am aware of that. So a better way perhaps to ask this is how do you plan for your -65dBM standard in terms of number of access points you will need during a new building construction?

Since there is no physical building yet to survey, are you importing the blueprints into a survey program (Ekahau or Prime for example) and letting them compute the number or do you have another method?


Kitri Waterman
--
Network Engineer (Wireless)
Information Services
University of Oregon
541.346.1697


On 12/12/13 10:10 AM, Max Lawrence Lopez wrote:

Hello Kitri,

 

-65dBM does not necessarily equate to sq. footage (especially with 802.11n). Of course RF propagation is greatly influenced by construction and building materials. It is necessary to either perform a Site Survey or have some sort of Predictive RF modeling done to identify RSSI boundaries…

 

If you have any questions on our approach please don’t hesitate to contact me.

 

Max Lopez 
Senior Staff Authority for Wireless

Office of Information Technology
University of Colorado
3645 Marine St. Boulder, CO 80309
Direct:  303.492.2193
Skype:  mrmax05

max.lopez@colorado.edu

www.colorado.edu
www.linkedin.com/in/maxlopez
www.twitter.com/mrmaxlopez

 

 

 

 

 

Things like iPhones are a lot lower than 25 mW.  Closer to 17. 

 

Ryan H Turner

Senior Network Engineer

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599

+1 919 445 0113 Office

+1 919 274 7926 Mobile

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Brisson
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:39 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning

 

Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point.  We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has.   What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone.

We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet.  But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI.  I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values.

Curious what folks think of that strategy.  Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking.  I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic.

Thanks,
-dan


Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbrisson@uvm.edu


This blog post at aerohive has good info on determining transmit power on devices. Interesting that the report lists different power levels at different frequencies.

http://blogs.aerohive.com/blog/the-network-revolution/apple-ipad-3-and-other-mobile-device-wi-fi-output-power

-- 
Jason Watts
Pratt Institute, Academic Computing
Senior Network Administrator

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 12, 2013, at 1:54 PM, "Turner, Ryan H" <rhturner@EMAIL.UNC.EDU> wrote:

Things like iPhones are a lot lower than 25 mW.  Closer to 17. 

 

Ryan H Turner

Senior Network Engineer

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599

+1 919 445 0113 Office

+1 919 274 7926 Mobile

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Brisson
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:39 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning

 

Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point.  We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has.   What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone.

We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet.  But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI.  I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values.

Curious what folks think of that strategy.  Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking.  I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic.

Thanks,
-dan


Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbrisson@uvm.edu

Message from ceyre@mtroyal.ca

As a good example I was down in an area just yesterday that mentioned of poor signal and I initially went down with my nexus 7 and my analyzer program and could barely get -80 dbm. I found it very odd so I went back and got my laptop with Ekahau and my ekahau usb-300(?) nic and was easily getting 65-68 dbm.

I too should have surveyed with a lower power setting on my nic.


Craig Eyre          
Network Analyst
IT Services Department
Mount Royal University
4825 Mount Royal Gate SW
Calgary AB T2P 3T5

P. 403.440.5199
E. ceyre@mtroyal.ca

"The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will."  Vincent T. Lombardi


Jason Watts ---12/12/2013 12:07:53 PM---This blog post at aerohive has good info on determining transmit power on devices. Interesting that

From: Jason Watts <jwatts@PRATT.EDU>
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU,
Date: 12/12/2013 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
Sent by: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>




This blog post at aerohive has good info on determining transmit power on devices. Interesting that the report lists different power levels at different frequencies.

http://blogs.aerohive.com/blog/the-network-revolution/apple-ipad-3-and-other-mobile-device-wi-fi-output-power

--
Jason Watts
Pratt Institute, Academic Computing
Senior Network Administrator

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 12, 2013, at 1:54 PM, "Turner, Ryan H" <rhturner@EMAIL.UNC.EDU> wrote:

    Things like iPhones are a lot lower than 25 mW.  Closer to 17.  
     
    Ryan H Turner
    Senior Network Engineer
    The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
    CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599
    +1 919 445 0113 Office
    +1 919 274 7926 Mobile
     
    From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Brisson
    Sent:
     Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:39 PM
    To:
     WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
    Subject:
     Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning
     
    Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point.  We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has.   What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone.

    We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet.  But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI.  I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values.

    Curious what folks think of that strategy.  Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking.  I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic.

    Thanks,
    -dan


    Dan Brisson
    Network Engineer
    University of Vermont
    (Ph) 802.656.8111
    dbrisson@uvm.edu

Also, coming in a bit late, but I am beginning to think the best method for my reshalls anyway is to put an AP in every other room, as they run linearly down a hallway.  Then stagger the floor above to offset by one room.  We've been doing every 3rd room lately and while it seems adequate, I think for density purposes, as well as signal level, moving to the every other room makes sense in the long run.  As someone else mentioned, power output levels are one thing, antenna performance is another and then one still doesn't know anything about the device's' receive sensitivity which is another factor in the RF realm.


On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Dan Brisson <dbrisson@uvm.edu> wrote:
Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point.  We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has.   What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone.

We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet.  But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI.  I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values.

Curious what folks think of that strategy.  Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking.  I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic.

Thanks,
-dan

Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbrisson@uvm.edu
Yikes, didn't think they were weak but it has been a while since I've looked.  Based on that, are folks aiming to accommodate that weak of a signal at -65 or close to that?

-dan


Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbrisson@uvm.edu

To put it in perspective, the transmit powers for iPhone 5 (yanked from: http://blogs.aerohive.com/blog/the-network-revolution/apple-iphone-5-wi-...)

 

Frequency bands supported:

•    2.4 GHz ISM (Channels 1 – 11), Power Output ~16dBm
•    5 GHz UNII-1 (Channels 36 – 48), Power Output ~14dBm
•    5 GHz UNII-2 (Channels 52 – 64), Power Output ~13.5dBm
•    5 GHz UNII-2Ext. (Channels 100 – 140), Power Output ~12dBm
•    5 GHz UNII-3 (Channels 149 – 161), Power Output ~13dBm
•    5 GHz ISM (Channel 165), Power Output ~13dBm

- See more at: http://blogs.aerohive.com/blog/the-network-revolution/apple-iphone-5-wi-fi-specs#sthash.8jMYDOni.dpuf

 

Ryan H Turner

Senior Network Engineer

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599

+1 919 445 0113 Office

+1 919 274 7926 Mobile

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Brisson
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 2:57 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning

 

Yikes, didn't think they were weak but it has been a while since I've looked.  Based on that, are folks aiming to accommodate that weak of a signal at -65 or close to that?

-dan



Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbrisson@uvm.edu

Message from iam@st-andrews.ac.uk

It seems to me to be completely impractical from a planning and budgetary perspective to be increasing the density of AP's on an annual basis due to poor client design, whether low transmit power, antenna deficiency, or insufficiently well designed front-ends.

If a device can't connect to the same wireless network, side by side with last year's device, then from my perspective, that's an issue with the device, not an infrastructure issue.

Thanks

--
ian

Sent from my phone, please excuse brevity and misspelling.
From: Turner, Ryan H
Sent: ‎12/‎12/‎2013 18:54
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning

Things like iPhones are a lot lower than 25 mW.  Closer to 17. 

 

Ryan H Turner

Senior Network Engineer

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599

+1 919 445 0113 Office

+1 919 274 7926 Mobile

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Brisson
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:39 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning

 

Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point.  We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has.   What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone.

We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet.  But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI.  I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values.

Curious what folks think of that strategy.  Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking.  I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic.

Thanks,
-dan


Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbrisson@uvm.edu

On 12/12/2013 5:11 PM, Ian McDonald wrote:
It seems to me to be completely impractical from a planning and budgetary perspective to be increasing the density of AP's on an annual basis due to poor client design, whether low transmit power, antenna deficiency, or insufficiently well designed front-ends.

If a device can't connect to the same wireless network, side by side with last year's device, then from my perspective, that's an issue with the device, not an infrastructure issue.

Well, when most of us started wireless deployment, it was pretty optimistic to plan for a laptop per student / class seat / dorm bed, this was the same time we were doing ResNet plans with a "port per pillow" -- a plan which game consoles initially wrecked, now followed by BluRays and Smart TVs and femtocells and who-knows-what-else.  And now for wireless, it's certainly not just laptops (we have more registered/identified BYODs than computers now).

Wireless devices continue to explode...  its not last year's device that can't necessarily communicate, it's the 3-4 extras today over the original device that cause the issues.  If you designed for 2.4G power/distance back when 2.4G was in vogue, and 5G was either ancient (11a) or new again (11n), it wasn't necessarily a design goal, and 5G doesn't tolerate walls, etc as well.  Not sure about 11ac, but 11ad at even higher frequencies will penetrate even less.

So yeah, if we had to do it over again AND knew what we know today... sure.  How many deployed 11a/b/g over 100Mb ports?  And out of those, how many were Cat6/6A?  Regretting any of those decisions yet?  Just give it time :)

Things evolve.  I'd agree they should last longer than "last year" but things change *fast* in this business :)

Jeff
********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

It not just poor client design, however (and I can’t really always call it poor design, because who here doesn’t get peeved with a short battery life device?? Which is what low transmit power helps).  We are really switching from a coverage based design to capacity based design.  If we want people to be able to do more with wireless, it can’t come from just a change in wireless PHY.  It also has to come from increased density, which will in turn lead to less shared bandwidth and higher through-put.

 

I think the days of getting by with a coverage based deployment are coming to an end, and the days of planning for capacity is already here.  The big question is how many of us have adjusted for this model?  We still haven’t.

 

Ryan

 

In certain areas, sure. One more thing we're going to have to divine from our tea leaves is which areas only need coverage, and which need the extra money sunk in for high capacity. Unfortunately, all it takes is a professor who wants in class laptop survey software getting scheduled in the wrong room to blow up your original plan.

Personally, I'm still waiting for a vendor to release an AP with dual 5GHz radios, so I can just buy one of those to add capacity in that band instead of buying two dual band units and turning the 2.4 radio off.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

"Turner, Ryan H" <rhturner@EMAIL.UNC.EDU> wrote:

It not just poor client design, however (and I can’t really always call it poor design, because who here doesn’t get peeved with a short battery life device?? Which is what low transmit power helps).  We are really switching from a coverage based design to capacity based design.  If we want people to be able to do more with wireless, it can’t come from just a change in wireless PHY.  It also has to come from increased density, which will in turn lead to less shared bandwidth and higher through-put.

 

I think the days of getting by with a coverage based deployment are coming to an end, and the days of planning for capacity is already here.  The big question is how many of us have adjusted for this model?  We still haven’t.

 

Ryan

 

Message from dannyeaton@rice.edu

We’re in the process, right now.  We’ve got basic “coverage”, and in the classrooms we’ve tried to accommodate for higher density.  However, with 3, 4 or more devices per student – or person really – we’re looking at a refresh of the 1,400 APs we have now and effectively doubling that – or more.  Sure, this is a “back of the envelope” budget number, but it’s also based on the demands from our user community with multiple devices, buildings with LEED certification that cell phones won’t work inside well, and RF doesn’t penetrate concrete and rebar filled cinder block walls very well.  Shrink the cell, the AP doesn’t have to transmit as high of a power, and there’s hopefully less interference from the Xbox controllers, microwave ovens, cordless phones, etc. etc. etc. 

 

We basically did coverage based design with ROWN v1.0 back in 2005, and have migrated in the new construction to capacity based design.  With a refresh of network hardware (due to EOS/EOL notices from multiple vendors on our specific hardware standard models), we’re looking to make it another 8 – 10 years with a new focus on capacity.  It’s not as if users are going to quit having multiple devices. 

 

********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Well, the problem is with the natural attenuation of the 5 gig band.  Since it can only go half the distance that 2.4 can go with the same power level, you are going to have to space these things apart if you want people to move from cell to cell on the 5 gig band and maintain a high data rate.   No easy way to skin this cat J

 

Message from jfwilson1@uclan.ac.uk

And of course having just installed your multi thousand AP wireless network, fully surveyed and planned for data only (as agreed in the scope), you then get told that it will now need to support Lync 2013 VOIP clients on thousands of staff mobiles/cell phones…sigh.

 

********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Hi Jennifer, Agreed that these are different requirements but IMHO a well designed HD data WLAN has much of the characteristics of a VOIP wlan although especially roaming is quite a beast to tame... -Kees >>> Jennifer Francis Wilson 12/13/2013 10:50 >>> And of course having just installed your multi thousand AP wireless network, fully surveyed and planned for data only (as agreed in the scope), you then get told that it will now need to support Lync 2013 VOIP clients on thousands of staff mobiles/cell phones...sigh. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Op deze e-mail zijn de volgende voorwaarden van toepassing: The following conditions apply to this e-mail: http://emaildisclaimer.avans.nl --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Message from jfwilson1@uclan.ac.uk

Granted, but then you have to try and explain to senior management that most Android phones don't even do Fast roaming (I only know of one for certain that supports 802.11r). Jen.
Aruba Networks has them too. Single radio Wi-Fi APs tend to be less expensive too. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer – Wireless Team IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971
Message from me@mpking.com

Oh?  Which one?  I was only aware of the Iphone doing 802.11r.

Mike


Message from jfwilson1@uclan.ac.uk

Huawei G526

 

See this link for a recent discussion (Nov 27 2013) post #10 where alab….@gmail contacted Huawei and they told them about it and provided a demo unit which worked. The user subsequently ordered 40 of them and they work fine apparently.

 

http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=17972

 

Jen.

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike King
Sent: 13 December 2013 13:42
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Betr.: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning

 

Oh?  Which one?  I was only aware of the Iphone doing 802.11r.

 

Mike

 

On the same topic... what software are you using to do your predictive surveys?  We use Ekahau and have been happy with, but have been wanting a product that will automatic build the wall layout. Tracing over the wall layout is very time consuming!  Any one aware of product that does this AND does it well???



Thanks,
Jason

On 12/12/13 12:10 PM, Max Lawrence Lopez wrote:

Hello Kitri,

 

-65dBM does not necessarily equate to sq. footage (especially with 802.11n). Of course RF propagation is greatly influenced by construction and building materials. It is necessary to either perform a Site Survey or have some sort of Predictive RF modeling done to identify RSSI boundaries…

 

If you have any questions on our approach please don’t hesitate to contact me.

 

Max Lopez 
Senior Staff Authority for Wireless

Office of Information Technology
University of Colorado
3645 Marine St. Boulder, CO 80309
Direct:  303.492.2193
Skype:  mrmax05

max.lopez@colorado.edu

www.colorado.edu
www.linkedin.com/in/maxlopez
www.twitter.com/mrmaxlopez

 

 

 

 

 

When we did our Res Halls, the requirements I put in place were no more than 30 devices per AP and a minimum RSSI of -63 in 2.4 GHz. It worked out that every 3 rooms had an AP, and I staggered the installation across the hall and between floor to get sort of pyramid shaped coverage zones (if you did connect the dots in 3D). Though we allow students to have up to 4 devices on the WiFi network, students probably average closer to two devices. We try to push static devices with WiFi capability (desktops and game systems) to wired connections (one wired drop per bed). The only issue I've had since fall of 2012 were all client configuration issues (yay Vista!).

-- Heath Barnhart ITS Network Administrator Washburn University 785-670-2307

On Wed, 2013-12-11 at 16:27 -0500, Barros, Jacob wrote:
We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement.  Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space?  For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area?  





Jake Barros  |  Network Administrator  |  Office of Information Technology

Grace College and Seminary  |  Winona Lake, IN  |  574.372.5100 x6178
********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement.  Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space?  For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area?  



Jake Barros  |  Network Administrator  |  Office of Information Technology
Grace College and Seminary  |  Winona Lake, IN  |  574.372.5100 x6178
********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

The cutoff for Cisco wireless phones in 5Ghz is -67 per their design guide for voice and I use closer to -70 in 2.4 Ghz for data-only deployments. These are all low-density deployments however, so YMMV for dorms. Nathan Hay Network Engineer | NOC WinWholesale Inc. 888-225-5947 From: "Barros, Jacob" To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU, Date: 12/11/2013 04:27 PM Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning Sent by: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement.  Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space?  For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area? Jake Barros  |  Network Administrator  |  Office of Information Technology Grace College and Seminary  |  Winona Lake, IN  |  574.372.5100 x6178 ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ********************************************************************************************* This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all copies. All unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any error in transmission. ********************************************************************************************* ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
As we remodel newer dorms moving forward, we put a network drop above the ceiling tile for every other room and then evaluate as needed for placement. We moved from about 4 to 5 access points per dorm building for legacy deployments over to about 20 in newer construction. -67 to -70 dBi is a good threshold as stated. Our biggest hurdle in the past was the lack of existing infrastructure in old buildings, so we're limited to that in certain spaces that haven't undergone construction. Joe Stewart Network Specialist Claremont McKenna College
Message from hugh.flemington@queensu.ca

We're going down the road to wireless coverage everywhere and are using minimum -65 as our design intent in both 2.4 and 5 Ghz. It's more of a vision right now but there's been a fair amount of new construction recently and we've tried to keep to that plan. We've got two new residences starting construction now (5 floors 272 students, 9 floors 272 students) and they'll be the first with the full coverage. Our wireless coverage in public and classroom space has been pretty good but was based on the laptop user sitting in one location. We're challenged now by the lower power handheld devices and the movement so we're drafting plans to revisit and retrofit building by building. Hugh Hugh Flemington Queen's University Kingston Canada
Remember that while a minimum RSSI is still important; with as dense as things have gotten, the bigger challenge these days is keeping up with density while keeping ACI and CCI to a minimum. Having good a good RSSI is useless if you've got four dozen clients all vying for a time slice to get their frames through.

-Luke


Hello Jake,

 

Here are our Best Practices:

 

University of Colorado
Best Practices Guide for Wireless Design

The following is a list of the Best Practices used for creating Wireless Network Designs for the Boulder Campus of the University of Colorado. This design includes optimal coverage cells, power settings and channel configuration for the access points:
 
·       All designs are based upon 95% coverage within the coverage areas for an 802.11n 5GHz design @ - 65dBm or better.
·       Coverage for 802.11n 2.4 GHz with be @ -67dBm or better
·       Channel Plan for the 2.4 GHz Plan will only use channels 1, 6, & 11.

·       Channel Plan for the 5 GHz Plan will use channels 36+, 44+, 52+, 60+, 149+, & 157+. (UNII-2 Extended optional)

·       Channel Plan for the 5 GHz Plan will be based upon 40 GHz Channel Bonding

·       User Capacity Requirements of 1 client device per seat in the lecture halls.

·       User Capacity Requirements of 3 client devices per bedroom in the residence halls.

·       Access Points will be designed for 40 connections per AP to provide optimal experiences for typical web browsing and email applications.

·       Make and Model of Client Requested APs:

o   Cisco Aironet 3500 Series Access Point (AIR-CAP3502I-x-K9)

o   Cisco Aironet 3600 Series Access Points

·       Outdoor units will be installed to in climate and weather protected boxes.

  • Build a WLAN design to incorporate wall attenuation factors based upon on site measurements for absorption (when provided) and industry standards for reflection of the identified building materials
  • The entire wireless network design will be constructed with uniform transmit power for all Access Points (except in the Lecture Halls where low power APs will be deployed as required for density issues).
  • Stairwells, storage areas and elevators do not require coverage.

 

 

Hi all,

What device or test equipment is being used for the RSSI value? If we see -65dBm on a Fluke AirCheck, we’re lucky to get -72dBm on an Intel 5100 in an HP laptop, as an example.  We’d like to pick a specific device, eg, an iPad and create standard measurements on such a device so the customer is empowered to report a fault based on data they have available.

Tristan

 




On 12 Dec 2013, at 8:27 am, Barros, Jacob <jkbarros@GRACE.EDU> wrote:

We are going into dorm rooms over winter break to review ap placement.  Do any of you have a policy (written or unwritten) that sets a minimum RSSI for a space?  For example, if the RSSI is -65 or lower then you shuffle or add an ap to the area?  



Jake Barros  |  Network Administrator  |  Office of Information Technology
Grace College and Seminary  |  Winona Lake, IN  |  574.372.5100 x6178
********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Max and Hugh,

So what does a -65dBM standard come out terms of AP per sq. footage?

O'Reilly 802.11ac guide lists -67dbm for 1 AP per 2,000 sq. ft. (assuming greenfield and approximations, of course).

Appreciated,


Kitri Waterman

--
Network Engineer (Wireless)
Information Services
University of Oregon





On 12/11/13 2:13 PM, Max Lawrence Lopez wrote:

Hello Jake,

 

Here are our Best Practices:

 

University of Colorado
Best Practices Guide for Wireless Design

The following is a list of the Best Practices used for creating Wireless Network Designs for the Boulder Campus of the University of Colorado. This design includes optimal coverage cells, power settings and channel configuration for the access points:
 
·       All designs are based upon 95% coverage within the coverage areas for an 802.11n 5GHz design @ - 65dBm or better.
·       Coverage for 802.11n 2.4 GHz with be @ -67dBm or better
·       Channel Plan for the 2.4 GHz Plan will only use channels 1, 6, & 11.

·       Channel Plan for the 5 GHz Plan will use channels 36+, 44+, 52+, 60+, 149+, & 157+. (UNII-2 Extended optional)

·       Channel Plan for the 5 GHz Plan will be based upon 40 GHz Channel Bonding

·       User Capacity Requirements of 1 client device per seat in the lecture halls.

·       User Capacity Requirements of 3 client devices per bedroom in the residence halls.

·       Access Points will be designed for 40 connections per AP to provide optimal experiences for typical web browsing and email applications.

·       Make and Model of Client Requested APs:

o   Cisco Aironet 3500 Series Access Point (AIR-CAP3502I-x-K9)

o   Cisco Aironet 3600 Series Access Points

·       Outdoor units will be installed to in climate and weather protected boxes.

  • Build a WLAN design to incorporate wall attenuation factors based upon on site measurements for absorption (when provided) and industry standards for reflection of the identified building materials
  • The entire wireless network design will be constructed with uniform transmit power for all Access Points (except in the Lecture Halls where low power APs will be deployed as required for density issues).
  • Stairwells, storage areas and elevators do not require coverage.

 

 

We have had to begin installing more APs (we have only 30 APs total). I have attributed this to the fact that newer Apple devices will hang onto a bad 5 Ghz connection over a solid 2.4 Ghz, the introduction of lower powered devices (Apple TVs for example), and metal studs in our newer dorms. It seems keeping my users on 5 Ghz is far more difficult than 2.4 Ghz was. Does the above sound correct? Bob Williamson Network Administrator Annie Wright Schools | 827 N Tacoma Ave, Tacoma, WA 98403 | www.aw.org D: 253.272.2216 | F: 253.572.3616 | Bob_Williamson@aw.org Mission: Annie Wright's strong community cultivates individual learners to become well-educated, creative, and responsible citizens for a global society. Find Annie Wright Schools on Facebook Follow our Head of Schools on Twitter @AWShead "Be green; keep it on the screen." ~ AWS Green Team
Thanks to all for your feedback.   Max, do you publish these best practices or is it internal?



Jake Barros  |  Network Administrator  |  Office of Information Technology
Grace College and Seminary  |  Winona Lake, IN  |  574.372.5100 x6178


Hello Kitri,

 

-65dBM does not necessarily equate to sq. footage (especially with 802.11n). Of course RF propagation is greatly influenced by construction and building materials. It is necessary to either perform a Site Survey or have some sort of Predictive RF modeling done to identify RSSI boundaries…

 

If you have any questions on our approach please don’t hesitate to contact me.

 

Max Lopez 
Senior Staff Authority for Wireless

Office of Information Technology
University of Colorado
3645 Marine St. Boulder, CO 80309
Direct:  303.492.2193
Skype:  mrmax05

max.lopez@colorado.edu

www.colorado.edu
www.linkedin.com/in/maxlopez
www.twitter.com/mrmaxlopez

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Jacob,

 

This is not published yet as we are looking to update the wireless section of our website.
We have however redesigned 85% of our campus for 802.11ac (5GHz). We have a 3,000+ AP deployment and counting.

 

If you have any questions regarding our practices please don’t hesitate to contact me.

Thanks,

Max Lopez 
Senior Staff Authority for Wireless

Office of Information Technology
University of Colorado
3645 Marine St. Boulder, CO 80309
Direct:  303.492.2193
Skype:  mrmax05

max.lopez@colorado.edu

www.colorado.edu
www.linkedin.com/in/maxlopez
www.twitter.com/mrmaxlopez

 

 

 

 

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Barros, Jacob
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:32 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning

 

Thanks to all for your feedback.   Max, do you publish these best practices or is it internal?

 


 

Jake Barros  |  Network Administrator  |  Office of Information Technology

Grace College and Seminary  |  Winona Lake, IN  |  574.372.5100 x6178

 

Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point.  We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has.   What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone.

We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet.  But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI.  I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values.

Curious what folks think of that strategy.  Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking.  I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic.

Thanks,
-dan

Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbrisson@uvm.edu
Thanks Max.

Yes, I am aware of that. So a better way perhaps to ask this is how do you plan for your -65dBM standard in terms of number of access points you will need during a new building construction?

Since there is no physical building yet to survey, are you importing the blueprints into a survey program (Ekahau or Prime for example) and letting them compute the number or do you have another method?


Kitri Waterman
--
Network Engineer (Wireless)
Information Services
University of Oregon
541.346.1697


On 12/12/13 10:10 AM, Max Lawrence Lopez wrote:

Hello Kitri,

 

-65dBM does not necessarily equate to sq. footage (especially with 802.11n). Of course RF propagation is greatly influenced by construction and building materials. It is necessary to either perform a Site Survey or have some sort of Predictive RF modeling done to identify RSSI boundaries…

 

If you have any questions on our approach please don’t hesitate to contact me.

 

Max Lopez 
Senior Staff Authority for Wireless

Office of Information Technology
University of Colorado
3645 Marine St. Boulder, CO 80309
Direct:  303.492.2193
Skype:  mrmax05

max.lopez@colorado.edu

www.colorado.edu
www.linkedin.com/in/maxlopez
www.twitter.com/mrmaxlopez

 

 

 

 

 

Things like iPhones are a lot lower than 25 mW.  Closer to 17. 

 

Ryan H Turner

Senior Network Engineer

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599

+1 919 445 0113 Office

+1 919 274 7926 Mobile

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Brisson
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:39 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning

 

Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point.  We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has.   What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone.

We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet.  But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI.  I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values.

Curious what folks think of that strategy.  Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking.  I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic.

Thanks,
-dan


Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbrisson@uvm.edu


This blog post at aerohive has good info on determining transmit power on devices. Interesting that the report lists different power levels at different frequencies.

http://blogs.aerohive.com/blog/the-network-revolution/apple-ipad-3-and-other-mobile-device-wi-fi-output-power

-- 
Jason Watts
Pratt Institute, Academic Computing
Senior Network Administrator

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 12, 2013, at 1:54 PM, "Turner, Ryan H" <rhturner@EMAIL.UNC.EDU> wrote:

Things like iPhones are a lot lower than 25 mW.  Closer to 17. 

 

Ryan H Turner

Senior Network Engineer

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599

+1 919 445 0113 Office

+1 919 274 7926 Mobile

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Brisson
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:39 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] WiFi planning

 

Coming in a little late on this thread, but Tristan brings up an excellent point.  We are dealing with multiple areas in our dorms where AirMagnet Survey with the AirMagnet a/b/g/n card had a much better RSSI/SNR than the student with an iPad or iPhone has.   What we should have done when surveying was to turn down the TX power to something like 25mW, which would more closely mimic a tablet or smartphone.

We are in need of a survey tablet upgrade and currently looking at a Dell XPS with the built-in Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 since that appears to have direct support within AirMagnet.  But I'm considering also purchasing something like a Nexus 5 smartphone and using that along with the tablet to check RSSI.  I would prefer to use an iPhone since that's what the majority of students have, but from what I can tell there's still no decent App that will give RSSI values.

Curious what folks think of that strategy.  Hopefully this is close enough to the main topic to not be considered hijacking.  I had been meaning to get an email out on this topic.

Thanks,
-dan


Dan Brisson Network Engineer University of Vermont (Ph) 802.656.8111 dbrisson@uvm.edu

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