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Hello,

 

I am looking for anyone who has moved to wireless only dorms.  We have fast track dorm construction project that is starting and our CIO would like to make it wireless only.  I am wondering if anyone has done this and if so what kind of advice or comments can you share.  We will be using Cisco waps.  Also I am wondering what kind of ratio you based your access points on, how many devises per person. 

 

Best Regards,

 

Sara

 

Sara M. Laird

Network Administrator

Mount Saint Mary's University

301.447.5014

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Message from reb@ncsu.edu

Sara,

We have not moved that way but are looking at implementing wireless in the dorms.   We have decided to factor in several things in determining the density of wireless.  You'll need to consider the fact that students are coming in with 3-4 wireless devices per person these days with at least a couple being used simultaneously.  You'll also want to factor in the residence hall layouts.  We've determined that we'll probably need to place at least one per suite.  This is due both to multiple devices per user but also due to construction material and layout of the suites.  If you want to take full advantage of 802.11N technology you'll also want to design based on 5GHz coverage with also reduces your coverage area.  Even in our older residence halls where there are two people per room and 4 to 5 bedrooms per suite one AP is going to be pushing it and we may find that we need two to a 8-10 person suite. Our residence halls tend to be constructed with concrete block with drastically reduces the coverage area of 5GHz.

I'm sure others that have already implemented wireless only can provide actual results but these are some of the things we're trying to factor in.

Rick



On 1/18/2012 1:05 PM, Laird, Sara M wrote:

Hello,

 

I am looking for anyone who has moved to wireless only dorms.  We have fast track dorm construction project that is starting and our CIO would like to make it wireless only.  I am wondering if anyone has done this and if so what kind of advice or comments can you share.  We will be using Cisco waps.  Also I am wondering what kind of ratio you based your access points on, how many devises per person. 

 

Best Regards,

 

Sara

 

Sara M. Laird

Network Administrator

Mount Saint Mary's University

301.447.5014

Faith t Discovery t Leadership t Community

********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.



--
********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Dorms are a bear to implement wireless, especially legacy buildings. We have had wireless APs in dorms for 6 years and have made several upgrades after discovering the weaknesses of different schemes.

Our two most difficult dorms are multi-bed apartments that are two-story inside the apartment. We elected to go with the Ruckus 2075 in-wall AP with four additional ports. The coverage has been excellent and we have only needed one per apartment. You may want to think of in-wall options similar to hotels.


Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. Petersburg, FL 33711

Message from russ.leathe@gordon.edu

We just finished rolling out wifi to all dorms.  Each dorm is uniquely different in terms of age and/or construction materials.  I used a variety of tools to determine placement of ap’s.  However, the first thing I did was place one or two AP’s in area’s that I thought would be strategic.  I used Air Magnet to determine if the heat map would provide adequate coverage.  I did a total of 16 dorms like this and ended up adding 12 additional AP’s in area’s that had little coverage.  We installed a total of 424 Ap’s and we added 12 more, not bad.

 

That said, I still have a small percentage of users with ‘wire only’ devices.  Not to mention the game consoles that are still wire only.  That said, we will be building a new dorm next year.  I plan on wifi only but will include wired ports as well.

Granted, not the “port per pillow” we have been use to, but maybe “port per room”.   I haven’t made a decision yet.

Wireless is still half duplex and the best I can get out of 802.11n is 300mps.  So, applications like IPTV, Digital Signage still require a wire. Not to mentioned fire alarms, HVAC. Phones, emergency notification…all things that we need to run a building,  still require a wire.

 

I have had as many as 20 clients on one AP, with no issues.  However, as more bandwidth intensive apps are available (not to mention the increase in devices), I suspect I will have to limit this.  So far, there has not been a need.

 

I hope this is helpful to you!

 

Russ

Gordon College

russ@gordon.edu

 

Though slightly off topic, I gotta chime in. I wish all major vendors offered an in-wall wireless AP option- very empowering for environments with lots of unused UTP.

 

Lee H. Badman

Wireless/Network Engineer

Information Technology and Services

Adjunct Instructor, iSchool

Syracuse University

315 443-3003

 

 

Sara,

We are testing wireless only, and here is what I would do if I were making a new dorm:
-Pull 2 UTP circuits to each room (it lasts decades and doesn't add that much to the total cost of the building)
-Activate those circuits only on request and for a fee (only have enough switch ports for your APs, don't buy electronics
for wired ports unless requested. You will most likely end up with spare ports on your switches for wireless anyway.
-5 and 2.4 GHz wireless everywhere with a maximum of 6-8 people per AP
-Locate APs in rooms using one of the two UTP (1 AP for 3 rooms, assuming 2 people per room)
-Locate circuits in a convenient place for wired and wireless

Somewhat modular. In the future if you need more ports you can always use one of those APs with built-in hubs (e.g. Aruba 93H, Motorola, Hopefully Cisco will have one ;-)

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
Univ. of TN, Knoxville





Message from zjennings@wcupa.edu

You mean like this?

http://www.arubanetworks.com/product/aruba-ap-93h-access-point/

 

Zach Jennings

Senior Network Server Manager

Aruba Certified Mobility Professional, Airheads MVP

West Chester University of PA

610-436-1069

 

Message from jethro.binks@strath.ac.uk

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Lee H Badman wrote: > Though slightly off topic, I gotta chime in. I wish all major vendors > offered an in-wall wireless AP option- very empowering for environments > with lots of unused UTP. Seems to be getting better. Aruba have just announced something ("wall-to-wall wifi"), HP introduced something last year, and Brocade's rebadged Motorola solution has had one for a while, and it seems Ruckus too. Dunno about Cisco, but if not now it is probably coming. Need to keep an eye on the capabilites of them though; some may or may not offer 11n, or maybe only at 2.4G. Jethro. > > Lee H. Badman > Wireless/Network Engineer > Information Technology and Services > Adjunct Instructor, iSchool > Syracuse University > 315 443-3003 > > >

Yeah- but even better are single-gang flush mount. http://www.extremenetworks.com/products/altitude-4511.aspx who makes it is irrelevant to my point- just calling out the power of not running new wire for wireless on the ceiling when lots of it is sitting there unused in the wall.

 

But you do help make the point!

 

 

Yeah- some are single-band with the notion that you'd put 5 GHz in one single gang existing cable location, 2.4 Ghz in the next... odd sounding at first, but opens up a lot of creative options (again, where you have existing UTP). -Lee
Message from toivo@usf.edu

I pretty much second Rick’s comments. We also don’t have wireless-only dorms yet, but the next one will have much less wire than our existing ones.

 

One AP per suite is what we’ve done, but you have to also consider non-RF placement issues – vandalism concerns, maintenance access and residents complaining about blinky lights above their beds.

 

Does the architect have issue with visible APs? If the APs are above ceiling / behind walls, do indeed check the materials and placement of ventilation ducts. Also, plan on PoE switches (and UPSes?) so power-cycling capability and visibility into the gear are improved.

 

Keep in mind that the tiling of 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz doesn’t have to be the same, nor power levels, since the number of non-overlapping channels differs. I’d try to find as many carrots as possible to steer people to 5 GHz. 2.4 GHz is a pain, with game console controllers, microwaves and number of other consumer devices adding to the lack of channels. Depending on your vendor, having a good ability to sniff the air / do spectrum analysis can be helpful in figuring out whether a wing just lost connectivity due to a microwave, misbehaving AP or rogue AP. Other design decisions – do you plan to support broadcast/multicast discovery (wireless printers, time capsules etc.) or legacy devices that require low data rates (i.e. Nintendo).

 

Toivo Voll

Network Administrator

Information Technology Communications

University of South Florida

 

 

 

Message from zjennings@wcupa.edu

I totally agree. They definitely make retrofitting an older dorm a lot easier.

 

Zach Jennings

Senior Network Server Manager

Aruba Certified Mobility Professional, Airheads MVP

West Chester University of PA

610-436-1069

 

Message from j2robert@odu.edu

We purchased a few older apartment buildings which we converted to dorms and are doing wireless only in them.  For the wireless we’re using Cisco 1142i and put one per apartment (some apartments are 2 beds, some are 4).

 

As mentioned you definitely want to do PoE on the switches to provide better power visibility and have a good UPS.  Since you’re going Cisco as well I’d suggest N+N controller redundancy as this will be their only network connectivity.  If I were doing it now I’d go with a 3500 series for CleanAir, but that wasn’t available at the time.

 

The only issue we’ve really ran into are gaming systems which wanted to use lower rates or couldn’t handle our captive portal authentication.

 

Also starting in the Fall in our other residence halls we shut down all wired jacks prior to move in and only activated them upon request (no charge).  All the dorms have 802.11n (mostly Cisco 3502i) installed in the hallway (densely) with the exception of a handful with APs in the rooms.  I created a couple web-forms for the students to use.  One activates the port + creates an 802.1x exception for a gaming device (known gaming OUIs), the other just activates the port for computer usage.  While we have had a lot of gaming device activations, we have seen very few activations for computer usage.  So as such it seems that our users have pretty much gone wi-fi only for their computers and are just using the wired ports for gaming at this point.

 

But personally if I were in charge of new construction I would still want one cabled drop in addition to the AP in the room and would do activations upon request as Philippe mentioned.

 

Josh Robertson

Network Systems Senior Engineer

Old Dominion University

Office of Computing & Communications Services

(757)683-5046

j2robert@odu.edu

http://occs.odu.edu/

 

Message from ceyre@mtroyal.ca

Hey All, Just keep in mind that there are very few smartphone/tablets that support 802.11n in the 5Ghz and iPhones(at least half of smartphones here) don't even support 5Ghz period (not even 802.11a). I don't look after our dorms wireless but they implemented a "fast" SSID in the 5Ghz 802.11n to allow the people who wish to move ahead with technology a better experience and then an ssid in the 2.4Ghz. Just some ideas for you. Craig Eyre Network Analyst IT Services Department Mount Royal University 4825 Mount Royal Gate SW Calgary AB T2P 3T5 P. 403.440.5199 E. ceyre@mtroyal.ca "The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will." Vincent T. Lombardi
I would like to know if anyone has evaluated to use Internet Service Provider level APs to cover and offer wireless services in dorms or wide areas with hundreds of users, instead of using Enterprise APs designed to support 25 users per AP.   

Soon, we are going to test GoNet Systems ISP level APs to serve approximately 300-400 users in 4 adjacent classrooms on first floor and 12 study rooms on second floor.  


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Luis Fernando Valverde
Director de Tecnología de Información y Comunicaciones
INCAE Business School
Tel: 506+ 24 37 23 38
www.incae.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message from bosborne@liberty.edu

Russ,

 

I disagree regarding IPTV. We have been successfully running IPTV with our Aruba system for over two years. We started with a single 5 GHz 11n-only SSID, and then expanded to an 802.11a/b/g/n SSID. I expect Cisco has something similar. I think Lee Badman is one of the Cisco experts here.

 

 

Bruce Osborne

Network Engineer

IT Network Services

 

(434) 592-4229

 

LIBERTY UNIVERSITY

40 Years of Training Champions for Christ: 1971-2011

 

Message from russ.leathe@gordon.edu

Sorry, I meant the STB-HD boxes not the client.  I should have been more clear.

 

 

 

Message from reb@ncsu.edu

That is the one we're seriously considering for the residence halls.  It is amazing it took someone this long to come up with this for enterprise use.






On 1/18/2012 2:38 PM, Jennings, Zachariah E. wrote:

You mean like this?

http://www.arubanetworks.com/product/aruba-ap-93h-access-point/

 

Zach Jennings

Senior Network Server Manager

Aruba Certified Mobility Professional, Airheads MVP

West Chester University of PA

610-436-1069

 

Message from reb@ncsu.edu

I agree, but I'd still say design for 5GHz.  It'll prevent redesigns down the road as more devices become available in that bandwidth.  At some point you have to trust that the intelligence in the AP/controllers will help adjust power levels and mitigate issues in the 2.4GHz band. 

Rick



On 1/18/2012 3:29 PM, Craig Eyre wrote:
Hey All, Just keep in mind that there are very few smartphone/tablets that support 802.11n in the 5Ghz and iPhones(at least half of smartphones here) don't even support 5Ghz period (not even 802.11a). I don't look after our dorms wireless but they implemented a "fast" SSID in the 5Ghz 802.11n to allow the people who wish to move ahead with technology a better experience and then an ssid in the 2.4Ghz. Just some ideas for you. Craig Eyre Network Analyst IT Services Department Mount Royal University 4825 Mount Royal Gate SW Calgary AB T2P 3T5 P. 403.440.5199 E. ceyre@mtroyal.ca "The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will." Vincent T. Lombardi
Message from reb@ncsu.edu

Bruce,

I'd love to talk with you about your IPTV deployment!

Rick


On 1/18/2012 4:09 PM, Osborne, Bruce W wrote:

Russ,

 

I disagree regarding IPTV. We have been successfully running IPTV with our Aruba system for over two years. We started with a single 5 GHz 11n-only SSID, and then expanded to an 802.11a/b/g/n SSID. I expect Cisco has something similar. I think Lee Badman is one of the Cisco experts here.

 

 

Bruce Osborne

Network Engineer

IT Network Services

 

(434) 592-4229

 

LIBERTY UNIVERSITY

40 Years of Training Champions for Christ: 1971-2011

 

Bruce,

 

Are you saying that you are providing HDTV channels to all their wide screen TV’s in the rooms over wireless that is equivalent in quality to what they would get from satellite or standard CATV? I would be curious to hear what the quality of experience is for the students watching HDTV, and what the experience is like for those surfing the net, as well as the download speeds and stability and latency they experience.

 

Thanks,

Pete

 

 

 

Message from bosborne@liberty.edu

Pete,

 

The numbers I am providing here may be outdated since I am not currently involved in our daily operations. Our IPTV solution was already in place and is handled by a different group here on campus.

 

We are providing 15 channels of encrypted 720p IPTV to clients running Haivision’s VideoFurnace InStream client. During our testing before deployment, we had 20+ clients spread across the 15 channels viewing simultaneously connected to one Aruba AP-125 AP.

 

Since we deployed this in fall 2009, we have not had any complaints from our customer base due to the video streaming. We periodically experience congestion issues on our Internet connections, but that is unrelated to the video streaming.  We started only offering the IPTV service on a 5GHZ 802.11n-only SSID. Eventually, we got complaints from users with 802.11b/g/n clients that wanted this service. We then expanded the offering to our normal 802.11 a/b/g/n SSID and retired the “high speed” SSID.

 

Aruba’s Dynamic Multicast Optimization technology is their “magic” We were involved during alpha & beta testing and were one of the first customers to deploy this to our customers. We worked directly with Aruba engineering to stress test this technology as it was being developed & refined.

 

I can put together a conference call to talk about this more offline in detail, if you wish. We have been very impressed with Aruba’s technology and support. No vendor is perfect and, many times, we are running our system on custom code testing solutions to bugs we have found. We are doing things with Aruba’s technology that other wireless vendors said could not be done.

 

Bruce Osborne

Network Engineer

IT Network Services

 

(434) 592-4229

 

LIBERTY UNIVERSITY

40 Years of Training Champions for Christ: 1971-2011

 

Message from russ.leathe@gordon.edu

Thanks Bruce,

 

Are you using anything else besides the AP-125?  Ap-105 and/or AP-175?

 

We are upgrading IPTV to HD and we want to push 10 IPTV channels over 802.11n.

 

 

 

Message from bosborne@liberty.edu

Russ,

 

I know we are using some AP-105s, but we prefer the AP-125s in our denser areas. We are more familiar with AP-125 since that was our only choice when we first deployed Aruba wireless and we used  AP-125 when we alpha tested and beta tested the IPTV solution.

 

I know one reason we have not tried the newer models is because we have not yet upgraded to ArubaOS 6.X. We are still running the old 3.4.X code. We have a migration plan, but there have been considerations outside of Aruba wireless that have delayed our migration.  I believe our current plan is to move to the most current 6.1 build when we move.

 

I think AP-105 should work for 10 channels. It really depends on the size of the streams and how many different channels are in use at the same time.

 

 

Bruce Osborne

Network Engineer

IT Network Services

 

(434) 592-4229

 

LIBERTY UNIVERSITY

40 Years of Training Champions for Christ: 1971-2011

 

Pete, We have 52 channels of IPTV using a similar setup to Bruce with Haivision gear and we are using Cisco wireless. It has been a great success. The equivalent secret sauce for Cisco wireless is called VideoStream or MediaStream (same tech, different marketing folks). Here is the sales document: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/wireless/ps6302/ps8322/ps1031... and the tech document: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps10315/products_tech_note09186a0080... that go over VideoStream. Down the line there are some IEEE standards that should replicate much of the functionality of these vendor specific solutions. 802.11aa (Robust streaming of Audio Video Transport Streams) is slated to be included in both 802.11ac and 802.11ad. With all of that said, I still think putting in either copper or at least decent size conduit to every room is a great way to future/legacy-proof your dorm rooms. If you have additional questions, hit me up off list and I'll do my best to help. -Luke =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Luke Jenkins Network Analyst Weber State University ljenkins@weber.edu
Message from reb@ncsu.edu

Luke,

Just to clarify, you're using HaiVision?  Wireless only or wired also?  We are getting ready to replace our CATV system with HaiVision and we have some questions if you be willing to have a conversation.

 
Thanks!

Rick


On 1/23/2012 3:29 PM, Luke Jenkins wrote:
Pete, We have 52 channels of IPTV using a similar setup to Bruce with Haivision gear and we are using Cisco wireless. It has been a great success. The equivalent secret sauce for Cisco wireless is called VideoStream or MediaStream (same tech, different marketing folks). Here is the sales document: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/wireless/ps6302/ps8322/ps10315/ps10325/white_paper_c11-577721.html and the tech document: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps10315/products_tech_note09186a0080b6e11e.shtml that go over VideoStream. Down the line there are some IEEE standards that should replicate much of the functionality of these vendor specific solutions. 802.11aa (Robust streaming of Audio Video Transport Streams) is slated to be included in both 802.11ac and 802.11ad. With all of that said, I still think putting in either copper or at least decent size conduit to every room is a great way to future/legacy-proof your dorm rooms. If you have additional questions, hit me up off list and I'll do my best to help. -Luke =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Luke Jenkins Network Analyst Weber State University ljenkins@weber.edu
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